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Author Topic:   Big Bang...How Did it Happen?
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 226 of 414 (137511)
08-27-2004 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by suaverider
08-27-2004 8:19 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
quote:
Another point even if it took a million years for evolution to happen (I don't believe it) there still would have had to be one second between the nonliving matter (a rock) being nonliving then in the next second being alive
This is false. There exist things, like viruses, and even better, prions, that blur the line between living and nonliving. In the development of life from non-life there was definitely a point where we had some sort of replicating molecules that we would probably consider non-living, in the end we had the first cell which was definitely alive. But in between there were probably stages where we had replicating biochemical systems, of increasing complexity, that would be hard to definitely place into either the life or non-life categories.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 8:19 PM suaverider has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 8:34 PM Chiroptera has replied

suaverider
Inactive Member


Message 227 of 414 (137512)
08-27-2004 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Chiroptera
08-27-2004 8:26 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
Well when it was replicating that's alive enough for me but in the instance in between the replicating to the defiantly alive sequence there would have only been a second.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Chiroptera, posted 08-27-2004 8:26 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Chiroptera, posted 08-27-2004 10:38 PM suaverider has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 228 of 414 (137514)
08-27-2004 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by suaverider
08-27-2004 8:19 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
You really need to learn how to use the quote feature.
jar writes:
First, almost all Christian Churches accept both Evolution and the Big Bang. There is no conflict between either theory and Christianity.
suaverider responded
quote:
Well to start with that is false evolution teaches death brought man into the world the BIBLE THE WORD OF GOD teaches man brought death into the world through sin. The bible says in the beginning not in a million years. GOD created all things in six days and rested on the seventh because creation was done and for us to work six days and rest on the Sabbath. That's only a few conflicts.
You really need to start checking your facts before making a statement like that.
Here is a partial list of the Churches that have supported Evolution and that oppose Creationism.
Religions Supporting Evolution
These churches and religious organizations have come out in opposition to teaching creationism in school:
* American Jewish Congress
* American Scientific Affiliation
* Center For Theology And The Natural Sciences
* Central Conference Of American Rabbis
* Episcopal Bishop Of Atlanta, Pastoral Letter
* The General Convention Of The Episcopal Church
* Lexington Alliance Of Religious Leaders
* The Lutheran World Federation
* Roman Catholic Church
* Unitarian Universalist Association
* United Church Board For Homeland Ministries
* United Methodist Church
* United Presbyterian Church In The U.S.A.
In addition, as has been explained to you, the originator of what became known as the Big Bang Theory was a Catholic priest. The biggest single objection to the idea was that it was too religious in nature.
edited to add:
Here's a link to a short introduction to Lemaitre & the Big Bang from a Christian Site
This message has been edited by jar, 08-27-2004 07:58 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 8:19 PM suaverider has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 9:22 PM jar has replied

suaverider
Inactive Member


Message 229 of 414 (137518)
08-27-2004 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by jar
08-27-2004 8:47 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
biggest single objection to the idea was that it was too religious in nature.
How can a theory that says all things came from random chance be religious it sounds like the big bang was trying to take GOD out of the picture to me at least.
You really need to start checking your facts before making a statement like that.
Here is a partial list of the Churches that have supported Evolution and that oppose Creationism.
I am a Christian and read the bible and see the differences. If you can believe both evolution and the BIBLE with all the contradictions. I stated a few then I don't know how to help that person they are opposite in every area I have looked. But there are many false religions out there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by jar, posted 08-27-2004 8:47 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by jar, posted 08-27-2004 9:33 PM suaverider has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 230 of 414 (137520)
08-27-2004 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by suaverider
08-27-2004 9:22 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
suaverider said
quote:
But there are many false religions out there.
Well, here is what Pope John Paul II had to say about the issue...
"Sacred scripture wishes simply to declare that the world was created by God, and in order to teach this truth it expressed itself in terms of the cosmology in use at the time of the writer. Any other teaching about the origin and makeup of the universe is so alien to the intentions of the Bible, which does not wish to teach how heaven was made but how one goes to heaven."
and Bishop Sims, the Episcopal Bishop for the Dioscese of Atlanta said,
"Evolution represents the best formulation of the knowledge that creation has disclosed to us, but it is the latest word from science, not the last. If the world is not God's then the most eloquent or belligerent arguments will not make it so. If it is God's world ... then faith has no fear of anything the world itself reveals to the searching eye of science. Insistence upon dated and partially contradictory statements of how as conditions for the true belief in the why of creation cannot qualify either as faithful religion or as intelligent science."
while The Reverend Bevel Jones, Bishop of the Methodist Church in Georgia said,
"Regardless of what it is called, scientific creationist is faith attempting to be science. It is a mistake to try to use the Bible as a textbook of science. The creation story is neither empirical science nor recorded history. It is a religious interpretation divinely inspired in a prescientific age. Those who take the Book of Genesis literally are at liberty to do so. They have a perfect right to hold those views, and to express them as persuasively as they can. But they do not have the right to require science teachers to do so in the public schools."
I would hardly clasify them as false religions. LOL

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 9:22 PM suaverider has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 9:48 PM jar has replied

suaverider
Inactive Member


Message 231 of 414 (137523)
08-27-2004 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by jar
08-27-2004 9:33 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
Pope John Paul II had to say about the issue...
I think I would rather believe the word of GOD myself.
It is a mistake to try to use the Bible as a textbook of science. The creation story is neither empirical science nor recorded history. It is a religious interpretation divinely inspired in a prescientific age.
God promised to preserve his word meaning it would be accurate I believe GODS promises he is not a man to lie. The bible teaches the world is a sphere when man still believed the world was flat it teaches of medical information that we didn't understand until many many years later Not to touch dead animals or man we didn't understand how infections worked until much later.
But they do not have the right to require science teachers to do so in the public schools."
Yeah but coming from nothing that exploded that then came alive makes so much more sense. how does that deserve to be taught and my belief doesn't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by jar, posted 08-27-2004 9:33 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by jar, posted 08-27-2004 10:03 PM suaverider has not replied
 Message 233 by Coragyps, posted 08-27-2004 10:08 PM suaverider has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 232 of 414 (137526)
08-27-2004 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by suaverider
08-27-2004 9:48 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
Yeah but coming from nothing that exploded that then came alive makes so much more sense. how does that deserve to be taught and my belief doesn't.
That is easy to answer but this is not the thread for that.
Start a thread or join one of the existing discussions on that subject.
This is on "How Did it Happen", and a very good start is with the material I pointed you towards. Later, if you want more information, I'm sure that with the help of the folks here, we can point you towards additional sources.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 9:48 PM suaverider has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 233 of 414 (137527)
08-27-2004 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by suaverider
08-27-2004 9:48 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
The bible teaches the world is a sphere
This should be on the Biblical Inerrancy thread, I know......
Chapter and verse, please? I can only find circles.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 9:48 PM suaverider has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Christian7, posted 08-27-2004 10:19 PM Coragyps has not replied
 Message 237 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 11:20 PM Coragyps has not replied

Christian7
Member (Idle past 277 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 234 of 414 (137529)
08-27-2004 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Coragyps
08-27-2004 10:08 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
MAN!!! THIS TOPIC IS SOOOOOOOOO LONG! 16 PAGES ALREADY. MY GOSH. THIS IN ITSELF IS PROOF OF THE SECCOND COMING. SOMEBODY CLOSE THIS THREAD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Coragyps, posted 08-27-2004 10:08 PM Coragyps has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 414 (137534)
08-27-2004 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by suaverider
08-27-2004 8:34 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
This is an article about a polypeptide that is only 32 amino acids long that can self-replicate. In other words, this is a very small protein that can replicate itself. Do you consider this single protein as living?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 8:34 PM suaverider has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 11:14 PM Chiroptera has not replied

suaverider
Inactive Member


Message 236 of 414 (137539)
08-27-2004 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Chiroptera
08-27-2004 10:38 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
I think of it as a simple life form. hey but thats just me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Chiroptera, posted 08-27-2004 10:38 PM Chiroptera has not replied

suaverider
Inactive Member


Message 237 of 414 (137541)
08-27-2004 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Coragyps
08-27-2004 10:08 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
Chapter and verse, please? I can only find circles.
The earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Coragyps, posted 08-27-2004 10:08 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 11:25 PM suaverider has replied
 Message 239 by jar, posted 08-27-2004 11:27 PM suaverider has replied

suaverider
Inactive Member


Message 238 of 414 (137542)
08-27-2004 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by suaverider
08-27-2004 11:20 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
A few more facts
Innumerable stars (Jeremiah 33:22).
Free float of earth in space (Job 26:7).
Creation made of invisible elements (Hebrews11:3).
Each star is different (1 Corinthians 15:41).
Light moves (Job 38:19,20).
Air has weight (Job 28:25).
Winds blow in cyclones (Ecclesiastes 1:6).
Blood is the source of life and health (Leviticus 17:11).
Ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains (2 Samuel 22:16; Jonah 2:6).
When dealing with disease, hands should be washed under running water (Leviticus 15:13).
Ocean contains springs (Job 38:16).
all of these facts from the bible were thought to be wrong.But now we see there true and so is GODs word.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 11:20 PM suaverider has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 11:29 PM suaverider has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 239 of 414 (137544)
08-27-2004 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by suaverider
08-27-2004 11:20 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
Isaiah 40:22
22: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in
shows the earth as a flat circle and the heavens as simply as a single dimensional sheet.
Hardly comparable to modern cosmology but about what you would expect for the time. This is simply another example, like Genesis, of people trying to explain things in terms appropriate for the age. It's yet another example of why the Bible cannot be taken as a science text.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 11:20 PM suaverider has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 11:32 PM jar has replied

suaverider
Inactive Member


Message 240 of 414 (137545)
08-27-2004 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by suaverider
08-27-2004 11:25 PM


Re: Oh boy this is hard work...
1. Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Here, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
2. Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting in a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day.
3. At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: "He...hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7).
4. The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere. Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. At a time when science believed that the earth was flat, is was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world (see Proverbs 3:6 footnote).
5. God told Job in 1500 B.C.: "Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?" (Job 38:35). The Bible here is making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statementthat light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that radio waves travel at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864 when "British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing" (Modern Century Illustrated Encyclopedia).
6. Job 38:19 asks, "Where is the way where light dwells?" Modern man has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a "way," traveling at 186,000 miles per second.
7. Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: "When the morning stars sang together..."
8. "Most cosmologists (scientists who study the structures and evolution of the universe) agree that the Genesis account of creation, in imagining an initial void, may be uncannily close to the truth" (Time, Dec. 1976).
9. Solomon described a "cycle" of air currents two thousand years before scientists "discovered" them. "The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits" (Ecclesiastes 1:6).
10. Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.: "In the beginning 08-19-2022 3:12 PM God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter] . . . And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters." The first thing God tells man is that He controls of all aspects of the universe.
11. The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled," and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."
12. All things were made by Him (see John 1:3), including dinosaurs. Why then did the dinosaur disappear? The answer may be in Job 40:15—24. In this passage, God speaks about a great creature called "behemoth." Some commentators think this was a hippopotamus. However, the hippo’s tail isn’t like a large tree, but a small twig. Following are the characteristics of this huge animal: It was the largest of all the creatures God made; was plant-eating (herbivorous); had its strength in its hips and a tail like a large tree. It had very strong bones, lived among the trees, drank massive amounts of water, and was not disturbed by a raging river. He appears impervious to attack because his nose could pierce through snares, but Scripture says, "He that made him can make his sword to approach unto him." In other words, God caused this, the largest of all the creatures He had made, to become extinct.
13. Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean" (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running water."
14. Luke 17:34—36 says the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night at the same time.
15. "During the devastating Black Death of the fourteenth century, patients who were sick or dead were kept in the same rooms as the rest of the family. People often wondered why the disease was affecting so many people at one time. They attributed these epidemics to ‘bad air’ or ‘evil spirits.’ However, careful attention to the medical commands of God as revealed in Leviticus would have saved untold millions of lives. Arturo Castiglione wrote about the overwhelming importance of this biblical medical law: ‘The laws against leprosyin Leviticus 13 may be regarded as the first model of sanitary legislation’ (A History of Medicine)." Grant R. Jeffery, The Signature of God With all these truths revealed in Scripture,how could a thinking person deny that the Bible is supernatural in origin? There is no other book in any of the world’s religions (Vedas, Bhagavad-Gita, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc.) that contains scientific truth. In fact, they contain statements that are clearly unscientific. Hank Hanegraaff said, "Faith in Christ is not some blind leap into a dark chasm, but a faith based on established evidence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by suaverider, posted 08-27-2004 11:25 PM suaverider has not replied

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