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Author | Topic: Discussion of John MacKay's Views | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
I agree with Adminnemooseus that this thread has changed focus from "Hi y'all!" to creation/evolution. If there are no objections, in a few hours I will retitle this thread "Discussion of John MacKay's Views" and move it to the [forum=-11] forum. I'm open to suggestions for a better title and/or a more appropriate forum.
Edited by Admin, : Grammar.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
I was enjoying reading through the thread yesterday, and would certainly like to see it kept open. I think your proposed title is very appropriate, as that is the inevitable and natural direction the thread was moving towards.
I say inevitable because of this:
Eilidh writes: I have watched debate after debate between Mr J McKay and some of the top scientist in the world. So far, non of them have held a candle to Mr McKay. I urge you to listen to a few of his discs.
A red rag to a few bulls around here, certainly. A Creationist to whom none of a sample of the world's top scientists can hold a candle must be a unique creature, and certainly worthy of a thread of his own with his name in the title. Let's go! Edited by bluegenes, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
As Eilidh has asked for a few days to digest my comments on Mr Mackay, we probably don't need a new thread for him right now.
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Thread moved here from the Coffee House forum.
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Eilidh Junior Member (Idle past 6156 days) Posts: 21 Joined: |
Sheeeeesh, I don't half have an unfortunate way with words, do I? Sorry, about the candle statement. That's me all over, just jump in with two feet, about what I think.
Can I blame the Celtic in me? Anyway, I'm only getting a few minutes each day on the net, so I have no answers for you, and probably I never will. As I stated, I have little understanding of science. I'm sure you would all wipe the floor with me. However, I do wish to take time and go over the questions anyway.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Hi Eilidh
Is there any chance of getting Mr John Mackay to actually take part in this debate himself? I understand that you are personal friends with him? Woud you ask him? You have freely admitted that you are ill equipped to defend his views against those with more scientific training than yourself.Would John Mackay not be interested in defending his own work from the fairly detailed attacks that have already been made on it? It would be an interesting discussion and test of his position don't you think? A debate with a real life 'creationist scientist' rather than someone re-iterating the views and findings of others would be worth seeing (and taking part in!).
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Eilidh Junior Member (Idle past 6156 days) Posts: 21 Joined: |
Oh yes, I can certainly ask him. I can't say he'll do it, but it's no problem to ask. I'll just go e-mail him right now.
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Eilidh Junior Member (Idle past 6156 days) Posts: 21 Joined: |
That's the e-mail off. I don't know where in the world he is now though, so this may take a few weeks.
I think a debate with him and y'all would be really cool.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Eilidh writes: Sheeeeesh, I don't half have an unfortunate way with words, do I? Sorry, about the candle statement. That's me all over, just jump in with two feet, about what I think. The words are fine, and I don't doubt that you personally find Mr. MacKay convincing, so no need to be sorry! Indeed, if those words lead to him joining a discussion here, then I, for one, am glad that you typed them. All I meant is that the words would be interestingly provocative to some.
Can I blame the Celtic in me? If you had done something wrong, would that be fair to other Celts?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
I wait with eager anticipation.
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Eilidh Junior Member (Idle past 6156 days) Posts: 21 Joined: |
Hi, Got an e-mail back from John, (Posted Beneath)
Just tell them to put their money where their mouth is and put up someone todebate so we can see publicly who is making the blunders. I will be in UK/Scotland in October/November so we can do it then if they get in soon. Let me know what happens and thanks for your concern. If there is any thing you want to ask go for it. In ChristJohn Mackay So, does anyone want to take up a LIVE challenge?
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Eilidh Junior Member (Idle past 6156 days) Posts: 21 Joined: |
ooops, double post, sorry.
Edited by Eilidh, : No reason given.
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
All of our mouths are here right now. Why would we forgo the chance to have a thought out, reasoned debate where people can take time about their answers and provide direct links to reference material in favour of a staged event where everyone has to be going in with prepared material and any rebuttal needs to be instantaneous and off the cuff?
The proper forum for any sort of rational scientific debate is not an English Speaking Union floorshow, it isn't really an internet forum either, but it is a much better venue for one than a face to face public debate. As others have suggested many creationist speakers favour face to face live debate because they can play to the crowd and employ the 'Gish Gallop', a list of purported problems with evolution which their opponent must then either allow to stand or spend considerable time of their own talking allotment rebutting. TTFN, WK
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Eilidh
Just tell them to put their money where their mouth is and put up someone to debate so we can see publicly who is making the blunders. It seems to me that Mr McKay has just done a slight of hand to avoid having to actually face dealing with a reasoned out debate rather than a short sound bite on television wherein he can run out a constant barrage of questions rather than deal in detail with answers that require deep thought.SO, if Mr McKay is clearly not using the medium of TV in order to further his own agendas of fame and ego driven banter, perhaps he might find the time to stop avoiding such sites as this one in order to deal with the real issues and see if he can avoid falling flat on his ass. I challenge him in return to attempt a real debate here in front of the audience we have at our disposal as well. My bet is that he does not have the cajones for such. Edited by sidelined, : No reason given. "Good displays of data help to reveal knowledge relevant to understanding mechanism, process and dynamics, cause and effect." We see the unthinkable and think the unseeable. "Visual representations of evidence should be governed by principles of reasoning about quantitative evidence. Clear and precise seeing becomes as one with clear and precise thinking." Edward R. Tufte
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Eilidh writes: Hi, Got an e-mail back from John, (Posted Beneath) Just tell them to put their money where their mouth is and put up someone todebate so we can see publicly who is making the blunders. I will be in UK/Scotland in October/November so we can do it then if they get in soon. Let me know what happens and thanks for your concern. If there is any thing you want to ask go for it. In ChristJohn Mackay Gee, Eilidh, I could make up all kinds of fake excuses like that my vacation is scheduled for August, not October/November, or that my vacation is structured around dropping my daughter off at college in the US, not Scotland, or that my passport wouldn't be ready, or that I can't afford airfare, or that the decent hotels have no vacancies, but you'd probably see through all that. The plain truth is that I don't dare face John MacKay publicly because I just know he'd make shreds of my evolutionary views and reveal me to be the sorry liar that I truly am. His clever response showed just how open he is to debate and how cowardly we evolutionists are. Good show! If you want to ask John MacKay something (he did say, "go for it," after all), I suggest you ask why the convenience and advantages of debating in a public Internet forum with a permanent record and that is accessible to the entire world instead of just to a few in attendance at a public debate in Scotland is to be denigrated. Everyone could debate from wherever they happen to be, and the debate could start now, not October/November. --Percy
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