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Author Topic:   The Whys of Evolution
Parasomnium
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Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 14 of 108 (210704)
05-23-2005 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by GDR
05-23-2005 4:23 PM


Re: An act of faith
GDR writes:
I contend that there is no scientic proof for the non-existance of ID, therefore it becomes an "act of faith" to declare the non-existance of ID.
GDR,
Suppose I were to declare the non-existence of chess-playing flying pigs, would that be an act of faith?
The problem with your statement (quoted above) is that it is logically impossible to have proof of the non-existence of something. That makes your conclusion ("therefore it becomes an 'act of faith' ...") unwarranted.
Furthermore, proponents of the naturalist explanation of evolution do not rule out the existence of an intelligent designer. They only point out that there is no real evidence for such, so that they see no reason to assume its existence. What they perform is what you might call "an act of non-faith"
Only when someone assumes the existence of something without any evidence to support that assumption, can one say that an act of faith is involved.

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by GDR, posted 05-23-2005 4:23 PM GDR has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 21 of 108 (210791)
05-24-2005 5:04 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by GDR
05-23-2005 5:35 PM


Re: An act of faith
GDR writes:
We aren't born an Atheist, Christian, or Muslim. We at some time in our lives make a decision in that regard. As there is no empirical proof of any kind, it requires an act of faith to come to a decision.
I disagree. Most Christians and Muslims are born that way, or rather, the decision is made for them by the community they are born into. Try and be born in Saudi-Arabia and not be raised a Muslim. Having failed that, try making a conscious decision not to be a Muslim anymore, but still continuing to live in your Muslim community. See what I mean?
In some Christian communities it is not much different.
As for atheists, the very word should tell you that they do not require an act of faith to come to be one. It's a lack of belief that distinguishes atheists from religious people.

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by GDR, posted 05-23-2005 5:35 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by GDR, posted 05-24-2005 9:51 AM Parasomnium has not replied
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Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 37 of 108 (210918)
05-24-2005 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by GDR
05-24-2005 2:24 PM


Atheism is NOT a belief.
GDR writes:
Atheism is a belief that says there is no Intelligent Designer or any other form of supreme being.
No. Atheism is not a belief. It's a lack of belief. It's what you end up with if you don't see any convincing evidence for whatever people tell you they believe in. Do you believe in the Hindu pantheon? I don't, because there is no evidence such a pantheon exists, so there's no reason for me to believe in it. Same thing with the Christian God. Same thing with any god or gods. I do not believe in a god of any kind. That's what atheism means. It seems I cannot stress it enough: it's not a belief.
GDR writes:
When you deny students the opportunity to contrast Atheism with Theist religions you are then left with kids being taught Atheism or possibly Agnosticism in the public school system. If we want the kids to truly think for themselves then let's give them the tools and the information to do just that.
I wonder what that's like, "kids being taught Atheism". Must be a very short curriculum: "OK kids, listen. There is no god. That's it. See you at graduation."
No, but seriously, I agree with you that it would be a good idea to tell students about all kinds of religions and other schools of thought, and science as well. They will find out what works for them. But they should be taught well, meaning no hidden agenda's or pseudo-science in science class and no pretention of science in religious class.

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by GDR, posted 05-24-2005 2:24 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by EZscience, posted 05-24-2005 5:06 PM Parasomnium has not replied
 Message 46 by GDR, posted 05-24-2005 5:33 PM Parasomnium has not replied

  
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