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Author Topic:   Praise for the RATE Group
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 82 (77215)
01-08-2004 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Joe Meert
01-08-2004 6:46 PM


Praise indeed. For those scientists writing and lurking here, many have had the opportunity to present their work to other scientists in the field. The fact that creation scientists have shied away from presenting to a knowledgable scientific audience which cast doubt on their credibility of their work. If they want equal footing with old earthers, they have to start acting like them. This is a good first step in actually practicing science, we will see how long they continue to do so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Joe Meert, posted 01-08-2004 6:46 PM Joe Meert has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by mark24, posted 01-08-2004 8:25 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 82 (96657)
04-01-2004 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Joe Meert
03-31-2004 7:25 PM


Re: Publishing in Science and Nature...
I feel for you Joe. I just had a paper rejected as well. It is frustrating, but it lets you know that the field of science is still kicking along.
I do have to say that it makes me sick to hear creationist cry rape every time their papers are rejected when us non-creationists in non-evolutionary fields are having our papers rejected as well. Maybe we should start sending our papers to creationist journals, their peer review system seems a bit more lax .

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 04-29-2004 2:39 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 82 (104205)
04-30-2004 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by John Paul
04-30-2004 12:37 PM


Re: Publishing in Science and Nature...
quote:
Encyclopedia article
A scientist is a person who is expert in an area of science and who uses scientific methods in research.
Yup, that fits me.
What do you think makes one a scientist?
In the context of publishing scientific articles, a scientist is a person that ADDS new things to a scientific field (ie new information or knowledge). A person that uses existing knowledge and does not increase our knowledge of a scientific field is a technician or engineer. I am not saying scientists are better than engineers/technicians, but in the context of scientific publications the differences are important.
Perhaps one of the biggest differences, in my opinion, is that engineers/technicians don't have to apply scientific methods that test a hypothesis. Guiding research towards a goal is a scientist's job, while engineers guide the construction of a physical thing towards a goal of completion (hope that made sense). Scientists and engineers have different goals and use different paths to get their.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by John Paul, posted 04-30-2004 12:37 PM John Paul has replied

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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 82 (104309)
04-30-2004 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by John Paul
04-30-2004 2:34 PM


Re: Publishing in Science and Nature...
JP,
Maybe I am being too picky. I guess I have a certain personal description of what I think of as a scientists vs. engineer/technician that doesn't actually fit the widely accepted definition. I probably have a bias towards biological research, which I will readily admit to. We'll see if I can't clarify my position a little.
quote:
disagree in that engineers do have to use the scientific method. I would say that good technicians do also. I have received two awards for my "scientific approach to resolving..." issues that pop up.
I agree with you here. The difference that I see is that engineering is more of a concrete science in that the answers are often black and white. For example, does the bridge take the expected load or not, can we get a certain bandwidth over this copper line or not. Engineers prove things, scientists only support or disprove hypotheses. This is the difference I see between the two. But again, maybe I am being to strict with the term "scientist". Perhaps I should use "research scientist" vs. scientist vs. engineer. Just to recap:
Research scientist: supports or disproves hypotheses, but never able to give concrete conclusions of fact.
Scientist: expert in a technical field, uses scientific methods to further a goal.
Engineer: uses knowledge gained through the prior two professions to build objects.
And I can also see how a person can move in and out of those divisions, depending on what part of a project they are working on.
quote:
What if someone publishes an article that adds knowledge to a majority but a minority already had that knowledge? Is that person a scientist just because his/ her findings were made public?
I would say that person is more of a scientist for exposing their findings to the public. Science doesn't belong to an individual, but rather to all of humanity. It is a mantra among researchers in the biological sciences that "if it isn't published, it never happened." For anyone to make a claim within my field, they have to publish it, or at least present it to their peers in a manner that is equivalent to a publication. It is also the peer review system that is important. The public relies on the peer review system to tell them what is and what isn't good science. Not everyone can be an expert in every field, so it is up to the experts to decide if a hypothesis has been sufficiently supported, both through the data and through the methodologies used. So yes, publication is key because no one else can test privately held data and methodologies.
And I am not looking down at engineers or other scientists who aren't involved in research. There are days when I wish I had gone into engineering, especially if things start to stagnate in the lab. Research that isn't going anywhere gets pretty frustrating.

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 Message 46 by John Paul, posted 04-30-2004 2:34 PM John Paul has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Joe Meert, posted 04-30-2004 5:45 PM Loudmouth has replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 82 (104329)
04-30-2004 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Joe Meert
04-30-2004 5:45 PM


Re: Publishing in Science and Nature...
quote:
I tried to make this same point. I am not an engineer and it would not bother me if someone pointed this out.
Exactly. Afterall, Darwin's only degree was in theology (not that they had science degrees back then anyway). What matters is the ability to support your hypotheses, regardless of your educational background. However, knowledge is a big help in interpreting data within the biological sciences (and geologic sciences as well).

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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