for any of the anti-porn crowd

You should try slash fiction. The porn of choice of almost every girl I know seems to be slash fiction.Brrr. My ex tried to show me some once. Now I know how creeped out girls must feel at lesbian porn aimed at men.

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"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

Slash fiction?Like, modern lesbian erotica?

No, slash is usually guy-guy stories. It can be girl-girl as well, or sometimes guy-girl. But guy-guy is the most common. Basically it's the reverse of guy-aimed lesbian porn... girl-aimed gay porn.Even creepier to me, it often uses previously established fictional characters. My ex's favorite was stories that involved characters from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So it's basically fan fic with lots of man-love.

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"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

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So it's basically fan fic with lots of man-love.

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would Syamsu reading a review of a Dawkin's book at Amazon and telling his friends in Nganjuk count?

Only if it includes graphic descriptions of him masturbating while talking about it.

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"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

Even more scary - you can find TEKKEN based fan erotica. Anyone for a bit of grandad-granson lovin'?

No problem...remember his "wet penis wet vagina" theory of natural selection?...there was definitely some spanken going on at the laundromat that day.

Unsettling, yes. But nothing is personally scarier to me than Xander/Spike.It's just... not right.

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"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

You want a majority to decide what is tasteful? You *do* realize you're in the minority in this thread.The courts have already been all through these questions. You can call it a slippery slope or a hierarchy of definitions or whatever you like, but it's all the same problem. For example, who gets to decide the criteria is "that which is tasteful"? The majority again? You *do* realize you're in the minority in this thread.So now you'll try to define what the majority is. Go ahead, but you're entering a twisty maze.--Percy

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if I enjoy using an opiate once or twice a year, am I an abuser? How many times must I use the drug per month, or what percentage of my income per month must I spend on said drug to be an abuser?

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I am always careful to say "abuse" instead of "use" because I believe that occasional, recreational use is just fine. However, I have known people who's relationships, careers, and health all suffered from their addiction. This includes narcotics and alcohol. I would label abuse as the point where drug use starts to damage your life, or where the drug becomes more important than family, career, and health.

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The evidence is just not there to support you fears. So why not stand up and admit it is your personal feeling and good for you, while standing up for other people's rights to allow access as they feel is right?

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It is very possible that my opinion is unsupported, I freely admit that. However, I think that whether or not a child/adolescent is exposed to sexually explicit material should be left up to the parents. Controlling pornography would allow all people to make this choice without stepping on anyone's toes. And being consistent, I would change the NC-17 rating (disallows ALL kids 16 and under) to allow parental supervision just like a Rated R movie (sorry if this doesn't make sense to our non-US readers).

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If you go down to ANY place where "actors" or "art students" hang out, I'll give you any odds that you'll get the same percentage.

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I'm not talking about pot. I am talking about drugs that are involved in life long addictions such as heroine and cocaine. The world would be a better place if all we had to worry about was weed.

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If you go down to the local factory (pretty much any blue collar work space) and It'll be the same thing, and the crummier the money you may even beat that found in porn.

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Good point. I have worked in factories and such, meth is a real problem not only among the workers but among the people they hang out with.

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But drug use does not automatically mean drug problem (another myth),

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Absolutely agree. Experimentation and infrequent use is fine, but addiction is a problem.

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and drug problem does not automatically mean it is the employer's fault or responsibility.

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The problem with the porn industry is that often the drug dealer and the employer are one in the same. Of course I may be taking a few examples and unfairly applying them to the whole industry, I am very aware of this. However, I have listened to quite a few porn star interviews. The common thread is that the first couple years of their careers they were fubared on something. And I will repeat, I may be applying this unfairly but it does seem common.

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It's been handy for some to scapegoat the industry but it just ain't true. My gf is completely drug free... which is hilarious since she comes from and we now live in a drug mecca. We just don't feel the temptation, and it hasn't been there on shoots either.

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Your username just took on new dimensions Mr. Holmes. I didn't read your message as a whole before I made the comments above. Perhaps you can set me straight and give me the inside look. But just as an example, would you say John Holmes' life and death is indicative of the porn lifestyle or an exception? Has the industry been cleaned up in the last 10-15 years, or was it even that bad to begin with? I really am opened minded about this.

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That said, I still think people should care, even if they are not responsible for the problem an employee might have. Especially in porn (where drugs can add risk to sexual health) it is important for employers to promote drug free or drug responsible behavior.

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Yep, that applies to every workplace, not the porn industry alone.

childhood who/what decides, and so have you and everyone else on this planet. It's one of those 'dieselfitter' thing(ks). A person writes a constitution, a bunch get together and say...'dieselfitter', which is a line from an old joke meaning 'these will fit her'.
An 'everything goes' society cannot last, it never has in the past. I don't mean chains on creative expression, but certainly a modicum of determination as to how far that should go.
A local artist, some years ago, proudly displayed his art in the local 'artist area'. That happened to be a neon penis doing extraordinary things. It didn't stay up long. It's ok if you see a pun. The majority of citizens said take it down, and so it came down. Is a penis a work of art? Of course it is. But not to everyone. (Shoulda been there, it was a riot).

Precisely what kind of society has lasted, on the scale you seem to be talking about?

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"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

When people let themselves follow instinct instead of intellect it gets down to the baser responses that are still part of our basic makeup, our heritage.Porn would be more prevalent if instinct were dominant.imho of course (added by edit)This leads to the question of what is intellectual porn ...heh.This message has been edited by RAZD, 06-29-2004 11:48 AM

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

lol