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Author | Topic: Should Sacred Studies be part of a general public school curricula | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Taqless Member (Idle past 5941 days) Posts: 285 From: AZ Joined: |
"If those people had been granted a chance from an earliy age to test and temper their beliefs by constant and rigorous comparision to other belief systems, would they behave the same?" No, if one honestly takes part in something of this nature one cannot walk away "untouched". However, I have serious doubts that such an idealistic idea as the one you propose will be allowed by the parents of these young minds. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I see attempts being made currently on all fronts of our education system to get integration of a specific belief system and religious agenda (SexEd, ID, and many more "small" initiatives). This tells me that we are in a paradoxical time where we are at once capable of learning and appreciating other people of opposing opinons/cultures/beliefs and yet we are still drawing lines in the sand in an attempt to find out where people are different from ourselves to better gauge how much better "we" are than "they" are.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Can you recommend some other method or procedure that might work better than what I propose?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Tony650 Member (Idle past 4060 days) Posts: 450 From: Australia Joined: |
Thanks for the link, jar.
jar writes: Actually, while it's no longer a boarding school, it's still quite active and their curriculum is online. *shakes head in disbelief* I never had anything even approaching these kinds of options in school. That is so depressing.
St. Paul's School writes: Grade 10: World Religions A This semester requirement for ninth graders covers Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Zen Buddhism. Reading extensively from the Old and New Testament and excerpts from the Koran, the students study of Western religions, focuses on history, the nature of God, moral code, means of redemption, among other theological issues. Examining current political problems in the Middle East, insofar as religion is involved, is also a consideration of the course. Students engage in group projects and presentations, write papers using primary documents as source material and engage in hands-on learning such as yoga, meditation, prayer and directed reflection. I take my hat off to your school, Sir!
jar writes: If you ever get to visit their chapel, the walls are covered with marble with the students names arranged by graduating class. Look at the lists from the BC side and maybe you can find mine. Well, maybe I can... But how will I know? I rather doubt that it's listed as "jar."
jar writes: Any infringment of the honor code was dealt with by the Student Council and their decisions were binding on the student AND faculty. Again, as it should be. Our teachers were total hypocrites. They'd catch students smoking and punish the bejesus out of them. Then, during lunch hour, they'd stand outside the staffroom door (yes, outside the staffroom door) smoking in plain sight of all the kids in the quadrangle. Understand, I have no problem with them making no-smoking rules. One way or the other, it didn't make a lick of difference to me; I've never had a cigarette in my life and don't plan to. What dissatisfied me was the fact that it was alright for the teachers to blatantly say one thing and do another. "Well, they're the teachers" never seemed like a good enough justification to me.
jar writes: I hope I don't get to see many of my old teachers anytime soon. LOL I much prefer being alive. Heh, I actually thought of that after I posted that message. But surely some of them are still around? You're not that old.
jar writes: As to sex-education, back when I was in school they hadn't invented sex yet so we missed out on it. Damn it, jar, I almost wet myself when I read that!
jar writes: They were building a new school down the hill from us and it was rumored to be a Girl's School. The only real indications though (and this might go under the heading of sex-ed) were the barbed wire fences, mine fields and guards with dogs. That's what's known in safe-sex as "protection."
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Here is a link to the Holloween Parade of Lower School kids.
Yup. A genuwine Halloween parade at a Christian School. Encouraged, supported, including parents, teachers and kids. Not a Fall Festival but a Halloween Parade. They even recite the Prayer for All Hallows Eve.
From ghoulies and ghosties and long leggedy beasties and things that go BUMP in the night. Good Lord protect us. they even had a May pole for the kids in spring but don't tell anyone Back on topic. The underlying philosophy at St. Paul's was that it is impossible to separate spirituality from any other activity. GOD Is. A second major theme was that morality is within you and within your control. It's not something external, not some set of outside rules, it is the essence and description of YOUR behavior, YOUR relationship with others both near and far. When I first visited the campus one thing that got my attention was seeing piles of books, clothes and lacrosse sticks (for those old enough to walk) lying everywhere. They were not guarded, not locked up, not protected except by the mindset or attitude of the students themselves. You were expected to behave in a moral fashion. I figured that might have gone away, been lost as we moved into the 21st. Century. But a few years ago I had a chance to go back. And the first thing I noticed when I arrived on campus were piles of books, clothes and lacrosse sticks. AbE: In an earlier post mention was made about limits on Girls education based on St Paul's teachings. Well, here's another link, this time to the St. Paul's School for Girls. Their curriculum is also on line. You'll note they are limited to things like cooking, washing clothes and ways to keep your feet warm while going barefoot during cold weather. except for a few courses like:
HISTORY ELECTIVES
(not to replace a required elective) AP Economics AP Psychology ** Adolescent Psychology and Peer Counseling The Cold War Economics Success in the City: Pathways to Leadership Twentieth Century Warfare MATHEMATICS AP Calculus (AB) Calculus Pre-Calculus A Pre-Calculus B Trigonometry/Algebra III SCIENCE / COMPUTER SCIENCE AP Psychology ** Genetics and Ethics Biotechnology Physics Honors Physics Conceptual Physics Computer Applications II WORLD LANGUAGES French German Japanese Spanish This message has been edited by jar, 05-06-2005 10:35 AM Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Taqless Member (Idle past 5941 days) Posts: 285 From: AZ Joined: |
First, I have to admit to being quite busy yesterday, so I stuck to pointing out problems with no alternative solutions....very half-assed of me.
It's not your method or procedure that I have a problem with. It's the inherent unlikely prospect due to lotsa' people like redseal that will make sure something like this never sees the light of day....especially in this current climate. Realistically, the following is the only way I think we can work towards such an implementation as you are suggesting AND I support: We, as a society, need to quit coddling people like redseal who are intolerant of others, think their tax money is somehow worth more than the next person's, and continue whining for everyone else to take responsibility for instructing their children on their pet religion as if it's the only one in the U.S. No disrupting ANY class time for religious reasons, no religious icons, and no religious writings, etc. that do not pertain to a course such as you described. Basically the public schools should be a religion-free zone. (I know you had a great experience in a religious setting...maybe this was a fortunate anomaly for you, but I doubt it is the norm.) Of course, I think course guidelines, rules, etc could be arrived at by a panel of people from various religious backgrounds here in the United States. The teacher could be selected by that same panel. This sort of approach I would support as a voter. At the risk of sounding like a "brown noser" my bias would be to see someone like yourself who seems to have a great balance in being secure enough with your faith to critically compare and contrast it with other belief systems and the relevant roles, no matter how ugly, that each and every one has played throughout history. To include the secular.
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Taqless Member (Idle past 5941 days) Posts: 285 From: AZ Joined: |
A second major theme was that morality is within you and within your control. It's not something external, not some set of outside rules, it is the essence and description of YOUR behavior, YOUR relationship with others both near and far......You were expected to behave in a moral fashion. This really brought back memories of how my dad raised me.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Let me return for a moment to "Things I learned at St.Paul's". One key thing that was drummed into us was to "Fight the Good Fight".
That's stuck with me. It doesn't say "Win the fight". It doesn't say "Fight the fight". It says "Fight the GOOD fight". I agree with you that the odds of winning are low. I agree with you that Bigotry MUST be opposed, and I try to do so in the only way I can. I try to change those things within me, and those things where I can have input. The question then is, "Is this a GOOD fight"? If it is, then we MUST fight for it. We may not win, in fact it's likely we will NOT win. I constantly irritate people here and have been called many terrible things by Christians. But that has nothing to do with the effort. But we are commanded to try. YOU cannot change the world. You can though try to change the school systems in your community, speak out against bigotry, show that morality != Christianity and Christianity != morality. I hope and pray for your support and the support of others. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Tony650 Member (Idle past 4060 days) Posts: 450 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes: GOD Is. Something else I've always wondered about you... Why do you capitalize every letter of "God"? I can't say that I've known anyone else who writes it as "GOD." Is there some theological or scriptural reason for this? Is that the way you were taught to write it or is it just a personal thing? I know that the Bible capitalizes "Lord" in this way (as in "the LORD God"), and I know it capitalizes the first letter of possessive and referential terms ("He," "Him," "His," etc) and even components or aspects of God ("the Spirit of God"), but I really can't say I've ever come across anyone else who writes "GOD." I hope this isn't a dumb question. It's just something that I've always noticed about you. And lest you get the wrong impression, I don't mind. This isn't a dig or anything ("What fo u writin' God's name like dat?" ), I'm just curious. And in the interest of steering this back towards the topic, let me just say that seeing some of the details of your education certainly explains a few things. Now all we need to do is lobby for a co-ed St. Paul's and you'll have damn near the perfect school on your hands!
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
That's a short OT digression so I'll try to answer.
If GOD exists, and I believe there is overwhelming evidence the she does, is he the Christian God, the Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Norse, Greek Egyptian or American Indian god? He is GOD. That's it. Not the Christian God. Not the Jewish God, not the God of the Aztecs. GOD. The creator. GOD. St. Paul's did provide an environment where someone could get a good education. But it's not unique. There are many such places. The important thing is not the school itself but that by its existence, it proves that it can be done. The rest is a function of will, morality and drive. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
First, there is knowledge to be gained regardless of the source.
Second, religion, all religions, affect the culture. To understand the culture it is necessary to understand religion. Third, to test and temper their faith. A faith unchallenged is a weak faith. Fourth, GOD, if he exists, can speak through any medium. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Tony650 Member (Idle past 4060 days) Posts: 450 From: Australia Joined: |
Yes, I apologize for going off-topic. It has long been a curiosity of mine about you.
So, essentially, it's an all-encompassing term; the god of all. You write it this way to distinguish it from "God," the term specifically referencing the god of Judeo-Christianity. Is this it, in a nutshell? If so then I believe I understand. Thank you for the explanation. Again, I apologize for the diversion.
jar writes: St. Paul's did provide an environment where someone could get a good education. But it's not unique. There are many such places. Well, I am quite elated to hear this. I've become increasingly pessimistic about such things and I must admit that anything with the word "Christian" in it does tend to get a bad gut reaction. It can be easy to forget that those making the most noise do not necessarily represent the majority.
jar writes: The important thing is not the school itself but that by its existence, it proves that it can be done. The rest is a function of will, morality and drive. Well, I must say, I am pleasantly surprised by what you've told me. Perhaps there is hope for education yet. I for one wish these schools all the best, and here's to many more of them.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So, essentially, it's an all-encompassing term; the god of all. You write it this way to distinguish it from "God," the term specifically referencing the god of Judeo-Christianity. Is this it, in a nutshell? If so then I believe I understand. Close, very close. I could live with that.
I for one wish these schools all the best, and here's to many more of them So here is a practical suggestion. Copy down the curriculum or if you want, I can get St. Paul's to send you a copy. Take it to every school and school board meeting and demand the same. If no one ever asks for such a curriculum ... what makes you think it will happen? It's something that has been done and so it's possible. It's been done more than once so it's replicable. But if you and others set standards lower than that, then you cannot expect to have such a curriculum in your schools. AbE: When the objection that it would cost too much comes up, suggest a Charter School be set up in the district based on that curriculum. This message has been edited by jar, 05-06-2005 02:57 PM Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Here is the opening statement from the National Association of Episcopal Schools. I quote it in its entirety because it's short and IMHO concerns this thread.
What are the principal qualities that distinguish a school as Episcopal? This question, more than any other, is asked of NAES by Episcopal school and Church leaders, parents and the general public. The answer is that they are Christian communities whose missions integrate spiritual formation into all aspects of the educational experience. Episcopal schools are most distinctive when they are true to this mission and when they do so in the graceful and inclusive manner which is the hallmark of the Anglican approach to education over the centuries. All Christian communities, even the most ecumenical and diverse of Episcopal schools, are upheld by the basic principles of the Baptismal Covenant. As expressed in The Book of Common Prayer, this Covenant maintains that individuals and institutions are called by God to adopt certain fundamental disciplines and dispositions in order to embrace fully their basic identities. As embodiments of the Christian faith, Episcopal schools are created to be communities that honor, celebrate and worship God as the center of life. They are created to be models of God's love and grace. They are created to serve God in Christ in all persons, regardless of origin, background, ability, or religion. They are created to strive for justice and peace among all people and [to] respect the dignity of every human being. These principles are the basis on which identity and vocation are to be defined in Episcopal schools. Episcopal schools are populated by a rich variety of human beings, from increasingly diverse religious, cultural and economic backgrounds. In fact, the intentional pluralism of most Episcopal schools is a hallmark of their missions. It is also a distinguishing characteristic of these schools that they seek to integrate religious and spiritual formation into the overall curriculum and life of each school community. Episcopal schools are clear, yet graceful, about how they articulate and express their basic identities, especially in their religious curricula and traditions. They invite all who attend and work in them Episcopalians and non-Episcopalians, Christians and non-Christians, people of no faith tradition both to seek clarity about their own beliefs and religions and to honor those traditions more fully and faithfully in their own lives. Above all, Episcopal schools exist not merely to educate, but to demonstrate and proclaim the unique worth and beauty of all human beings as creations of a loving, empowering God. By weaving these principles into the very fabric of the school's overall life, Episcopal schools ensure that their missions are built on the sure foundation of a Christian love that guides and challenges all who attend our schools to build lives of genuine meaning, purpose and service in the world they will inherit. Welcome to the community of Episcopal schools. A religious based school or course does not have to be indocrination or brain washing. I can be and should be inclusive of all belief systems.
Here is yet another link, this time to the National Association of Episcopla Schools website. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Taqless Member (Idle past 5941 days) Posts: 285 From: AZ Joined: |
...show that morality != Christianity and Christianity != morality. Whoa! I actually feel that christians, like anyone else, are a subset of the larger group that can be defined as moral. Come on, christians did not invent right and wrong even though they feel they hold the patent.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
!=
Computer short hand for not equal to. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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