quote:
It was because of "the fall of man" (Adam/Eve & Apple) that we have pain, suffering, hunger, death etc.
—asciikerr
And thus arises the Adam & Eve paradox. The reason atheists usually don't use the bible to support their objections about your god's existence is because the bible
presupposes your god's existence. It begins already with the assumption that the reader knows what the word "god" means, and many atheists have yet to comprehend what exactly the word means (and I believe christians don't know what it means either, they just
think they do, yet their arguments crumble the moment they begin to give this entity attributes). You can try to tell them they're putting god 'in a box' yet you're the ones trying to demonstrate that there is one, yet the only way to do so is by putting it 'in a box'. Go figure. Anyway - the adam & eve paradox I posted on a different thread but will post it here again for you:
In the first chapter of Genesis, God created Adam and Eve - the very first humans on planet earth. He gave them a nice big garden to play in - and it was called Eden. Wether it was the kind of garden you grow carrots and beets in or the kind you grow flowers and itchy things in, the Bible isn’t clear. We know it had trees in it, so I’m led to believe it was a facy-pants garden, probably like the ones you see behind mansions, and there was a harp always playing in the background, too. (Being sarcastic for those 100% serious minded folk out there).
Anyway, God told Adam and Eve that they could eat fruit from any of the trees in the garden except for fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Now, by the name of it, the tree of knowledge of good and evil represents knowledge of good and evil right? That means, basically, that you would know what is good and what is evil if you ate the fruit from it (hense the term knowledge of good and evil).
So the fruit was eaten by Adam and Eve and God not only punished them for their ‘sin’ but also the ENTIRE human race! Talk about bad news!
But there’s a catch...
Before the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was eaten, if Adam and Eve knew they were doing something wrong, then they would already posess knowledge of good and evil, and because God knows everything, He would know that they would not be tempted to eat from the tree since they already posess what the tree provided, and have nothing to gain by eating from the tree. So God’s test for Adam and Eve’s righteousness seems a bit weak, sort of like tempting a lotto player with yesterday’s winning numbers.
However, if Adam and Eve didn’t posess the knowledge of good and evil, then they did not know that disobeying God was a good thing or a bad thing, it was just a thing. So if God punished them for something that they didn’t know was wrong, God was unjustified in His punishment. God told them not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which, when a person has no idea what good and bad are, equates to saying something along the lines of blah blah blah.
Below you’ll find the argument in Logic format:
Let M = Adam and Eve
Let K = knowledge of good and evil
Let E = the action of disobeying God and eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil
Let I = the benefit of eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil
Let J = justified punishment
M∃K→~E∴~I
∴~J
M~∃K→E∴I
∴~J
If J is some other type of J, say a 'divine J that no human can comprehend' (a common christian fallacy - argument from ignorance), then J is an empty set and carries no meaning.
J¹= divine justification beyond human comprehension
J¹=J∨≠J∴J∅
The argument fails any way one looks at it. God can not exist as described in the bible - unless this god is irrational, in which case it does not (in our own standard) deserve reverence. This assumes, of course, that this god actually exists.
I feel that the counter to this argument will begin with something like, "you atheists are so..."
™ Version 4.2
