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Author
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Topic: the book of job, and an unjust god
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berberry
Inactive Member
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If one wants to make the case that God is unjust, one has only to read 1 Samuel 15. God orders Israel to attack and utterly destroy an entire race of people, going out of his way to order that children and even suckling infants be killed. It's passages like this that make me wonder just why it is that we're supposed to be afraid of Satan. If this is really God then he's a lot like Hitler.
Keep America Safe AND Free!
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berberry
Inactive Member
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No, it didn't take me all the way to Samuel. I've had these debates about whether God is good or bad according to scripture for years. I've noticed here in Jesusland that the story of the Amalekites seems to make fundies squirm, perhaps because it's difficult to spin. It's a favorite of mine because it has the element of maniacal racism which makes God comparable to Hitler.
Keep America Safe AND Free!
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 29 of 181 (170281)
12-20-2004 8:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
12-20-2004 7:37 PM
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Might be, Phatboy, and in fact this is not the first time I've encountered your interpretation. But some other Christians insist that the bible is inerrant, and if that's the case then it would seem to me that indeed God is no better than Hitler. Thus the question depends on your position regarding biblical innerancy. Remember, the passage I cited states explicitly that God ordered the slaughter of the Amalekites. I hope you don't take offense at my comparison of God to Hitler. If there is a God I certainly hope the comparison wouldn't hold, but clearly it does hold if the bible is inerrant.
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 28 by Phat, posted 12-20-2004 7:37 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 32 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 12:46 PM | | berberry has replied | | | Message 166 by Phat, posted 12-25-2004 10:16 AM | | berberry has replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 37 of 181 (170452)
12-21-2004 2:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 32 by dpardo
12-21-2004 12:46 PM
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You haven't been paying attention, have you?
dpardo asks:
quote:
What is your point concerning the slaughter of the Amalekites?
To compare God to Hitler.
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 32 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 12:46 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 38 of 181 (170453)
12-21-2004 2:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 33 by dpardo
12-21-2004 1:55 PM
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And your point is?
quote:
The Amalekites attacked an unarmed Israel as they fled out of Egypt.
Some 400 years prior, yes. I guess God has a long memory, huh?
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 1:55 PM | | dpardo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 39 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:22 PM | | berberry has replied | | | Message 40 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:27 PM | | berberry has replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 41 of 181 (170460)
12-21-2004 2:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 39 by dpardo
12-21-2004 2:22 PM
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When He gonna get round to it?
dpardo quotes Exodus:
...for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven. Kinda funny isn't it; here we are, remembering Amalek.
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 39 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:22 PM | | dpardo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 43 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:37 PM | | berberry has replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 42 of 181 (170462)
12-21-2004 2:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 40 by dpardo
12-21-2004 2:27 PM
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dpardo admonishes me:
quote:
You would do well to remember this.
Why? God might come back 400 years from now and smite my descendants because of something I've done? Not to worry; I'm gay so there won't be any descendants.
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:27 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 46 of 181 (170466)
12-21-2004 2:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 43 by dpardo
12-21-2004 2:37 PM
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Re: When He gonna get round to it?
dpardo observes:
quote:
If he asked Moses to write it in a book, then that's not what he meant by, "put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven."
No, it means he contradicts himself. How can you erase the remembrance of something by memorializing it?
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 43 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:37 PM | | dpardo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 50 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:53 PM | | berberry has replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Dan Carroll writes:
quote:
Like some sort of twisted Anne Geddes photo.
Missed this one the first time through. That's great. Wish I'd thought of it.
Keep America Safe AND Free!
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 49 of 181 (170469)
12-21-2004 2:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 48 by dpardo
12-21-2004 2:46 PM
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dpardo posits:
quote:
We don't know what they felt. However, my belief is consistent with the Bible's depiction of God and yours is not.
Meaning what? Infanticide is painless?
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:46 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 51 of 181 (170471)
12-21-2004 2:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 50 by dpardo
12-21-2004 2:53 PM
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dpardo writes:
quote:
From the events that took place in 1 Samuel 15, we can deduce that, what God meant was, he would wipe out all of the Amalekites.
No, we can assume. God said he would wipe out their memory under heaven. What he might have meant is immaterial, except that we might ask: why can't God say what he means?
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 50 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 2:53 PM | | dpardo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 53 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 3:00 PM | | berberry has replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 55 of 181 (170476)
12-21-2004 3:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 53 by dpardo
12-21-2004 3:00 PM
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Now THAT'S an excellent point
dpardo deftly perceives:
quote:
I think it's more a problem of "why can't people interpret correctly what God says?"
I dunno, maybe because when we try to interpret God we fail? But what does this say about biblical innerancy?
quote:
As always in these matters, taking things in context helps to clear things up.
Fair enough, but in this case I don't see how context makes any difference. The fact is that, if the bible is correct, God ordered a senseless slaughter of innocent babies. Where is the "context" that shows otherwise?
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 3:00 PM | | dpardo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 59 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 3:11 PM | | berberry has replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 58 of 181 (170479)
12-21-2004 3:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 56 by dpardo
12-21-2004 3:07 PM
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dpardo asks:
quote:
Does anyone know for certain what these babies/children felt as they died?
There you go again. Why is this question being asked unless you believe that infanticide is painless?
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 56 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 3:07 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 60 of 181 (170481)
12-21-2004 3:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 59 by dpardo
12-21-2004 3:11 PM
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Re: Now THAT'S an excellent point
You're reducing the holy spirit to a secret decoder ring. Why do we need a secret decoder ring in order to read the damn bible?
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 3:11 PM | | dpardo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 62 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 3:19 PM | | berberry has replied |
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berberry
Inactive Member
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Message 64 of 181 (170488)
12-21-2004 3:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 62 by dpardo
12-21-2004 3:19 PM
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dpardo writes:
quote:
Please consider that if God actually exists according to the Bible...
Sounds like a chicken or egg question. I have to find God before I can read the bible, but how do I know of God unless I read the bible? This isn't making sense.
quote:
...he has stated that sin will harden your heart.
Yes, and the heart pumps blood. Hardening of the heart can kill you. When you read a book (like the bible, for instance), you are using your mind, not your heart.
Keep America Safe AND Free!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 62 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 3:19 PM | | dpardo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 66 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 3:33 PM | | berberry has not replied | | | Message 68 by dpardo, posted 12-21-2004 3:44 PM | | berberry has replied |
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