Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,888 Year: 4,145/9,624 Month: 1,016/974 Week: 343/286 Day: 64/40 Hour: 0/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Legal Death, Legal Life, Personhood and Abortion
Thor
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 148
From: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 12-20-2004


Message 53 of 316 (182411)
02-01-2005 6:17 PM


I’m coming into this late, but thought I’d throw my 2 cents in anyway.
Riverrat -- Your opinion on abortion is quite clearly against it, fair enough. I do respect the fact that your opinion comes from personal experience and not simply because you were told to think that way.
That said, your own personal feelings and experience is not a yardstick for measuring what is right and wrong for everyone else. You disagree with abortion, that’s fine, you have that right. You also have the right to never do it again if you choose not to. But you are telling others that you are right and they are wrong and they MUST change their views. Because it is wrong for you, then nobody should have the right to make their own decision.
Fact of life, there are a lot of people in the world that think differently to you. That this issue is such a great controversy means there are a lot of people on both sides of it. But people who don’t agree with it are not forced to do it, they have the right to choose no. It is not justifiable for them take the right to choose yes away from those that do agree simply because they think it’s wrong.
Out in the real world there are a lot of people who want the right of choice, and therefore it should be addressed with fairness and reason. What RAZD is doing is providing a viewpoint on how guidelines may be set to determine where to ‘draw the line’ where a fetus may be considered a living person. It is up to reasonable, educated legislators to examine the issue in such a manner, taking both factual information and moral concerns into account, and make an informed decision on where that line is.
RAZD -- Not a bad piece of work. Nicely written.

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by RAZD, posted 02-01-2005 7:15 PM Thor has not replied
 Message 64 by riVeRraT, posted 02-02-2005 6:49 AM Thor has replied

Thor
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 148
From: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 12-20-2004


Message 89 of 316 (183000)
02-04-2005 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by riVeRraT
02-02-2005 6:49 AM


Re: Yea yea
Listen I understand your point, but I am speaking of strickly healthy babies when I am against abortion.
Unhealthy babies is another story.
The problem I have with people aborting otherwise healthy baby, is that is a bad solution for another problem.
I agree up to a point. It’s not a particularly good solution, and I’m sure it would be preferable to the people concerned to not have to do it. But it cannot be ignored that in some cases it may be the only realistic solution. I’ve never proclaimed it to be a pleasant thing, but sometimes it may be a necessary thing, regardless of the health (or lack of) of the fetus. Yes, aborting a healthy fetus may be viewed differently to an unhealthy one as the reasons are probably different, but this is where it is important to have established criteria based on reasonable and informed thought, that states when life is considered to begin. This is what I am advocating here. Prior to this point, the baby as you call it, is not a baby. It is merely a cluster of cells forming the foundation of what may one day become a person. At this stage there is no mind, no person. It should be considered to be a part of the woman’s body, and nobody else other than the woman should be able to decide what to do with her own body.
Let's make a comparison. I own a HVAC Plumbing business. You call me saying that you have a leak in your baseboard heating system. Which would you prefer me to do:
a: Fix the leak, so it stops, and the system works fine.
b: Cut that part of your heating system out, so it stops leaking.
c: Put some duct tape around it so it stops for awhile, but it's going to leak again.
I don’t see where this comparison is relevant the point I was making, this seems to be in relation to the health-of-the-fetus aspect. Please explain if I am reading it wrongly.
The real problem is people getting pregnant who don't want to have babies.
Yes, it is a problem. However, out there in the real world it will continue to happen. It doesn’t matter how much morality is preached, or how much people are educated, or how much contraception is available. There will always be people who get pregnant because they are careless or irresponsible, or genuinely by accident. Should we say tough luck, you’ve got yourself a kid.? Having a child is a major life-changing event, and cannot be done half-heartedly. What if someone does not want to have a child at the time, yet is irresponsible and doesn’t take precautions against pregnancy? Are they fit and ready to be responsible parents? Maybe, or maybe not. Or, say someone did take all reasonable precautions and still gets pregnant by accident. In either situation, indeed whatever the reason may be, the raising of an unwanted child should not be forced upon them.
In summary, have your opinion. You have the right to it, and you have earned it. But the right of choice cannot be taken from others who don't share your views, whatever the health of the fetus may be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by riVeRraT, posted 02-02-2005 6:49 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Thor
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 148
From: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 12-20-2004


Message 90 of 316 (183001)
02-04-2005 12:55 AM


two riverrats?
As an aside...
This from message 6
You and anybody else that agrees with you. You all must change now.
and then this from message 65
You know, you should stop telling people how to live their lives, and what to think, and stop being peoples psychologists as well, your not good at it.
How did these quotes come from the same person???
riverrat, are you sure you wrote both of these? You sure someone else didn’t sneak in and use your login while you weren’t looking??

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by riVeRraT, posted 02-05-2005 7:28 AM Thor has not replied

Thor
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 148
From: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 12-20-2004


Message 287 of 316 (187362)
02-21-2005 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by jar
02-21-2005 9:36 PM


Re: The Pro-life folk are just liars.
Yeah, I saw on tv a couple of years ago, a bunch of pro-lifers having a street march in New York. They were holding up big photos of people convicted of murder for bombing abortion clinics, and in doing so killing and maiming the people within. The marchers were looking up to these people as some kind of glorious martyrs.
After I got past being profoundly disturbed, I was amazed at how these pro-life people can talk of abortion being murder, but are quite happy to justify killing people when when it serves the interests of their own perverse agenda.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by jar, posted 02-21-2005 9:36 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by crashfrog, posted 02-22-2005 12:21 AM Thor has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024