The Problem of Evil

But isn't God omnipotent? If He didn't create evil, He surely must be permitting it.And isn't God omniscient? If so, then He would have known the "evil" outcome of His non-evil creation - thus He did create evil by creating a creation He knew would lead to evil.

That's what I said! The idea being that if the "permitter" is also the "creator", permission and creation of sin are synonomous, as the end of your Edwards quote goes on to state: If something is certain within a permission, than the permission is also the creation. And that is a very, very poor analogy - Because the sun is not the creator of the rules governing the light/warmth/dark/cold. If the sun had created those rules, it would have known that its absence would bring dark and cold, and so would have also been the creator of the dark and cold: So God created evil passively, rather than actively - not much of distinction; like claiming that I did not create a car accident, because I only took my hands off the wheel, and thus had no "positive" hand in the situation, even though I knew what would "necessarily follow".It would be nice to hear your arguments in your own words - the Edwards quotes are contradictory and at times argue against the point you are trying to make.

Not really, since I don't see an act as evil in itself, (though it is sometimes used that way conversationally: "She committed an evil"). Perhaps some of our disagreements have been semantics.After all, can't someone commit theft and still be good?"Evil" to me isn't "a moral wrong" (an act), it is the characteristic of being morally wrong (an attribute).Hopefully that makes sense...

Good questions - hopefully you realize I'm working through this as I go; I also am expressing my own viewpoint of evil, and not defending a definition from elsewhere. I'll try to clear up my intent:An entity is evil, not an act. Stealing food from a tyrant to feed my starving family is not an immoral or corrupt act, though the tyrant taking my family's food in order that they starve is an immoral act.However, in my opinion it is the character and intent of the entity committing the act that is "evil" or "not-evil" in this case, and not the act itself. If I were to think of an "evil" act, it is not the act itself I am describing as evil so much as the intent of those committing the act and the circumstances.You ask an important question, "Can a person be evil without doing evil? Or is he only evil because of his acts?"I suppose so - one could live with hatred and abhorrent fantasies in his heart and mind throughout his life without committing them physically. Though maybe some would define this mindset as "an act" in itself.Perhaps this is similar to the viewpoint of some that having sexually perverse fantasies is sinful even if they are not acted upon. I am not sure of this either - and much of it comes down to semantics. I guess I would answer this partly by saying that it may be only through acts that individuals reveal themselves as evil - though perhaps evil was part of their character all along.Since we can't look directly into someone's soul we can't see the evil without the acts. Not unlike in many cases where a serial killer is revealed, everyone in the neighborhood says, "He always seemed like such a nice, polite person."

Thanks for the comments and discussion. I understand your point, but I'm not sure that I agree with it - I might agree that God "passively" created evil (as opposed to actively doing so.)To return to my car accident analogy (let me know if you think it is flawed):
- If I am driving and purposefully steer my car into oncoming traffic, I am actively "creating" an accident.
- If I am driving and put the cruise control on and climb into the back seat, I am passively "creating" an accident, because I know that an accident is inevitable, though I am not directly causing the where/how/when of the accident.From your earlier replies it seems that you would agree that evil was an inevitable part of God's creation. Thus, an inherent component in the act of the totality of creation was the creation of evil.As a side note, do think God hardening the pharoah's heart was actively creating evil? Even if in only preventing the pharoah from choosing to cease he evil ways?

lfen,Thanks for the comments - I don't think they were badly put, when one tries to place sometimes nebulous or abstract concepts of spirituality or existence into language form things quickly become complicated and easily misconstrued.As an example, perhaps my use of the word "soul" was not well thought out, since I do not personally believe in a discrete, constant, infinite entity - and you are correct that this is the common implication of the word. My use of "soul" was more intended to describe the intent of what you would call a "loci" - it was also used in the framework of a discussion with a particular theme and audience.I do agree with some of your comments/definitions regarding the permanency of "entities", though perhaps my beliefs would grant more lasting (but not unchanging) identity to such entities/loci.Since our discussion includes "eastern" philosophy, I would say that my personal concept of "evil" is more of an issue of an entity being very off-balance, or perhaps maintaining the intent to destroy the balance of others (though the latter likely follows from the first). I agree, and would add Taoism to the comment as well, not just for the understanding of organisms, but the nature of space and matter as well.I may try to comment more on your thoughts, but must finish now - I tend to adopt others language in discussion even if I maintain my own meanings of that language, and tend to argue from within hypothetical frameworks at times. (Though I've avoided that in this reply).I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on balance and evil...