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Author | Topic: Einstein's Religious Beliefs | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Einstein did believe in God, just not a personal God or a traditional one, but claiming he was merely talking of the laws of the universe is unfounded.
Care to try to substantiate Einstein was an atheist and simply referred to God as a metaphor for the laws of the universe? If he was an atheist, he wouldn't have denied it when asked. He also stated he believed in Spinoza's God. Spinoza's God is a sentient being. Unless you want to argue Einstein was unaware of Spinoza's beliefs, I don't see how you have an argument. Edited by randman, : No reason given.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
You misunderstand the comment on "personal God." It's a reference to the idea of God as someone that responds to prayer or is concerned with morals, ethics and human beings, that is "personal" in that manner.
Edited by randman, : No reason given.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
"You will hardly find one among the profounder sort of scientific minds without a peculiar religious feeling of his own . . . .His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection." Real Questions. Real Answers. Bible Based. - BibleAsk Quite obviously Einstein believed there was a far superior intelligence behind natural law. Furthermore, he point blank denied being an atheist.
I'm not an atheist The context you quoted was that to a Jesuit, he would appear to be an atheist.....obviously a bit pf hyperbole, but when asked point blank about his belief in God, he denies being an atheist and merely reiterates he doesn't believe in a personal God such as the God in Judaism and Christianity. Here is the quote in context which makes it clear Einstein believed in a Creator.
"I can't answer with a simple yes or no. I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism, but admire even more his contributions to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and the body as one, not two separate things." Note his comparison and analogy of us as children that know someone wrote the books we see. We know someone created the rules, laws,and existence of the universe. We just don't know how. Edited by randman, : No reason given. Edited by randman, : No reason given.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Read what he wrote. It's pretty clear. Just google some sites and read for yourself. Here are some comments. This first one should settle all doubts as to his belief in God but not the personal God that responds to prayer, etc,...
“I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws.”
http://www.kansascity.com/news/world/story/619097.html
I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. -- Albert Einstein, following his wife's advice in responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the International Synagogue in New York, who had sent Einstein a cablegram bluntly demanding "Do you believe in God?" Quoted from and citation notes derived from Victor J Stenger, Has Science Found God? (draft: 2001), chapter 3. I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science. [He was speaking of Quantum Mechanics and the breaking down of determinism.] My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance -- but for us, not for God. -- Albert Einstein, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/einstein.htm Here he angrily denies being an atheist and is upset with people that claim he is.
"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." "I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God." http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html Edited by randman, : No reason given.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Einstein denied being an atheist. Check out the quote below:
[qs] "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." "I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God." http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html Note the comment that "there are yet people who say there is no God." Seems pretty clear he believed the universe itself was evidence of God, just not a personal God that responds to prayers, etc,....
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
A will like ourselves doesn't mean no will at all. I think the best quote is where Einstein says he is upset with atheists that try to count him as one of them.
"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." "I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God." http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html Note his derision of "people who say there is no God." Just read his writings. It's abundantly clear he believed in a Creator God. Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
There is no contradiction whatsoever. He couldn't be plainer. You can't believe in a "superior intelligence" that shows itself in the universe without believing in God, period. He over and over again states his belief in God. He just doesn't think this God is the same as the personal God of most religions. He also believes God is subject to the same principles His/It's intelligence reveals.
Spinoza, just to make a point, believed very much in a Creator Being. One item many atheists naively miss is the fact that Spinoza didn't accept a strictly materialist universe as some think. He believed created things were made from an uncreated substance which is part of a divine Being. Now, you could argue that the uncreated substance is material, but it's a different perspective than materialists. Everything, not just "physical" things, are an extension and part of Spinoza's God, both what we can see and measure and what we cannot.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
If you don't see the contradiction, you're either not reading the quotes that counter your beliefs about what Einstein believed, or you're being intellectually dishonest. Percy provided a quote where the man said he wasn't a panthesist, and then one where he basically said he was a pantheist.
Or conversely you have poor reading skills and shouldn't accuse those with better knowledge of being intellectually dishonest? Fact is he never says he is a pantheist. He says quite plainly he is not an atheist, that he is not a pantheist either. He quite plainly states over and over again, he believes in a Creator God, but doesn't think God answers prayer. God is not a personal God as most religions advocates. He sets up immutable laws, which He Himself is subject to. How you can read what he says and not see this is astonishing to me! Maybe if you approach this not trying to fit Eistein into some specific camp and just reread his words, you can see it. He is not an atheist and deplores atheists that try to say he is. He explicitly says it upsets him. At the same time, he is not favorable towards traditional religion, though he does argue, over and over again, that a specific religious feeling is necessary for true, scientific discovery, and that great intellects possess this feeling.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Maybe so, maybe not....but one thing is clear, despite rejecting a traditional view of God, he was not atheist and did believe in God.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Problem is I have carefully showed that the "God" he believed in was not the traditional idea of God, but at the same time, Einstein stated he was religious and believed in God. So I am just retelling what he stated without adding anything more at all to it.
In fact, the biggest error here is to assert he was an atheist and just mentioned "God" as a metaphor for natural laws. It was more than that. He saw those laws as evidence for this "superior intelligence."
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Wasn't Einstein somewhat of a philanderer, btw?
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