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Author Topic:   Why wasnt jesus married ?
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 64 (142095)
09-13-2004 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by arachnophilia
07-21-2004 2:28 AM


Well, was he or wasn't he?
The original question posed in this thread is whether Jesus was married. Except for Message 4, Message 20, and possibly Message 37, everyone else is surmising bullshit; and no one has answered "who says he wasn't?"
And as far as Nazarites being celebate, what about Sampson? He was a Nazarite. As far as I can tell, the only women Nazarites were prohibited from boinking were those contaminated by the fruit of the vine.
But back on the subject ... where in the Gospels is it said specifically that Jesus was not married?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by arachnophilia, posted 07-21-2004 2:28 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by arachnophilia, posted 09-13-2004 11:16 PM Abshalom has replied

  
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 64 (142322)
09-14-2004 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by arachnophilia
09-13-2004 11:16 PM


Was He or Wasn't He?
Arachnophilia:
I appreciate your response. I agree with your premises. But the fact remains ...
Here is Message One from Michael: "Can anyone help ? Why wasnt jesus married. Surely a jewish man at this point in history would have been. Why no explanation to the contrary. Perhaps this is another example of the bible's revisionism of the role of women in society. Would the admittance of jesus's union with a woman raise the fairer sex to a point of equality with man, and lower jesus from deity to man/philosepher. Surely this is a more acceptable truth, that men collated the bible (selecting which gospels to include), and elevated mans importance in order to increase both influence and power."
And after reading the entire body of responses to his questions, I personally think they go unanswered, and that those who responded simply focused on their own agenda rather than directly answering Michael's original questions:
Michael's Q#1) Why was Jesus not married? Why no explanation in the Bible?
In other words, where in the Gospels is the explanation for why a Jewish teacher did not follow Jewish custom, marry, and procreate as other Jewish teachers and political leaders? Was he an Essene or a member of some other branch cult that forsook marriage in favor of devoting one's life to theology? So far I've only seen mention of "Nazarites," and to my understanding, Nazarites were not prohibited from engaging in either marriage or sex outside of marriage.
Most other Jewish prophets and messianic political leaders were married and sired children didn't they? Are there other examples of celebate Jewish rabbis, political leaders, etc.?
So the first question goes unanswered ... no one has revealed a solid, Judaic theologic reason why Jesus was not married, and no one has cited a passage in the Gospels, or any historic document contemporary with Jesus, to confirm that indeed he was not married.
Michael's Q#2) Is this another example of the Bible's revisionist stance on women?
I'm assuming that by "the Bible" Michael is mainly referring to the New Testament, and that if we look especially to those parts of the New Testament written or edited by Paul of Tarsus, we can clearly see indeed there is an anti-feminist tone.
Did Paul ever mention whether he himself was married? If Paul wasn't married, why not? He was a Pharissaical Jew of marrying age long before he experienced his epiphany on the road to Damascus.
Paul's marital status might even be the more important question really, considering the degree to which Christianity is based upon Paulism rather than the traditional Judaism from which the teachings of Jesus, James, and the original apostles springs.
Does Jesus's supposed celebacy originate in Paul's anti-feminist philosophy regarding women's role in the Church? That may be a question directly related to Michael's original message. And I did not see any response in regard to Michael's second question about "revisionism" of the feminist role in Jewish society.
Michael's Q#3a) Wouldn't Jesus's union with a woman raise women to a position of equality with men? Hmmmm. Very Coptic of you, Michael, and I don't see any response to your question among the 44 posted "replies."
Michael's Q#3b) And wouldn't Jesus's marriage to a woman lower his own status from "God" to humble "Man?" Hmmmm. Very Humanistic of you Michael, and again I don't see much in the way of response to that question either.
By the way, Michael, have you given up on responses that directly address your questions? I will scan the 44 replies again, but I didn't see any further participation by you the first time through. I'll use that "Michael's Messages" feature to see if I missed them. Oh, well, if not, I fully understand ... what with all this theological posturing to avoid a direct answer.
Peace. Abshalom.
EDIT: Okay, on second read-thru, I see that Michael did reply to Willowtree's errant ideas about Nazarite's vows regarding celebacy, etc., and women's role in Jewish and early Christian societies. However, Michael's messages at #5 and #6 surely can't be responsible for the entire thread swerving away from the original questions ...
This message has been edited by Abshalom, 09-14-2004 10:16 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by arachnophilia, posted 09-13-2004 11:16 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by arachnophilia, posted 09-14-2004 5:17 PM Abshalom has not replied

  
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 64 (142421)
09-14-2004 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by arachnophilia
09-14-2004 7:08 PM


Re: The Coptic Issue, and Regarding John
I may be off base re: "coptic." I meant that some Coptic Christians seem to embrace Mary Magdelene as a primary apostle, or a spiritual companion of Jesus. Whatever.
With regard to John. I never was much into John. I cannot comment on John other that to say that "the Word" as Creator seems a little caballistic. Maybe John was proto-Kabballah, or maybe he got ahold of some ergot of rye that some lazy housekeeper failed to clean out at Passover.
Peace. Abshalom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by arachnophilia, posted 09-14-2004 7:08 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by arachnophilia, posted 09-14-2004 9:05 PM Abshalom has not replied

  
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