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Author Topic:   If some parts of the Bible can't be trusted how can any of it?
MonkeyBoy
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 189 (111141)
05-28-2004 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by almeyda
05-27-2004 11:59 PM


Throwing the baby out with the bathwater
If we cant trust the Bible in absolutely everything it says then we cannot trust it in anything it says.
How logical is this? Have you ever told a lie? I have to assume the answer is yes, therefore no one can ever trust anything that you say. I think jar explained the bible to best, in that it is a map. If you base your faith on a BOOK, then the book is your God.
Written by men a long time ago.
Precisely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by almeyda, posted 05-27-2004 11:59 PM almeyda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by almeyda, posted 05-29-2004 12:59 AM MonkeyBoy has replied

  
MonkeyBoy
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 189 (111455)
05-29-2004 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by almeyda
05-29-2004 12:59 AM


Bizzar; what do you mean?
[qs]If indeed he lied in all this then i will not worship a false and lying God.[qs] But dude, the point that I'm making is that the bible is a book, NOT God. If I tell you a brief testimony or history of my ilfe, and you accidently misquote me, get a date wrong or mispell a word of two, does that mean that I do not exist? Does that mean that I am a liar? No, the writing made the mistake, not me.
If there is no absolute true God. Then i would definately go back to being an athiest & evolutionist.
The two (athiest & evolutionist) are not one and the same, and one is not required in order to believe in the other. Just a nitpick.
I will not pick and take from every religion available naively thinking they are all the same or the best bits from all will get me to heaven..
This sounds like a swipe, and if it is, I do not take offense. I do not pick and choose from whatever religion that I come across. My decision was not arbituary, nor was I forced to believe that way I do. I came to a belief in God in spite of the bible, not because of it.
Back on topic, IMHO, if you deep six your faith just because a part in a book is proven to be false, then I submit that your faith was weak to begin with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by almeyda, posted 05-29-2004 12:59 AM almeyda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by almeyda, posted 05-30-2004 1:24 AM MonkeyBoy has replied

  
MonkeyBoy
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 189 (111572)
05-30-2004 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by almeyda
05-30-2004 1:24 AM


Ohh i love my neighbour yes i do. Hell no. I believe it all because its Gods true words.
It's strange, but there are many of us that do not believe Jesus was divine, and many of us that do not believe in a God at all. Yet, we somehow find the ability to 'love our neighbor'. How can that be if the God of the Christian bible is no in us?
However, if you need the bible to keep you in line morally, by all means, keep reading and learning.
And i need to be able to trust him in everything he says. This is why i joined this religion. Not because i need purpose in my life. F*ck all that. I found the truth and thats what matters to me.
What the hell? I think you may want to re-evaluate WHY you believe, what you believe. Besides, you really don't know that 'it' is the truth; you believe on faith, the same as I, and nothing more. Otherwise, you, I and every other believer would be able to present solid evidence of God; we cannot do that, so far as I have seen. I wouldn't even attempt it. I'm of the opinion that everyone finds their own way.
And i got this truth by discovering the evidence for creation and against evolution.
What evidence? And what does evolution have to do with God's existence? How can I believe in God and evolution? The two are seperate and neither one affects the other. I believe in the Theory of Relativity (although I won't pretend that I grasp the majority of it) and that doesn't affect my faith, either. I cannot see how evolution excludes God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by almeyda, posted 05-30-2004 1:24 AM almeyda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by almeyda, posted 05-30-2004 11:48 PM MonkeyBoy has replied

  
MonkeyBoy
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 189 (111816)
05-31-2004 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by almeyda
05-30-2004 11:48 PM


Ok well since no supernaturalism exists, only naturalism.
No, science (as asgara pointed out in post 59) has no method of determining the validity of the supernatural. Science only deals with the natural; what is so hard to understand? Science does not exclude the possibility of the supernatural; it simply doesn't have the ability to examine it.
How does God fit into this picture?
Good question. Of course, I do not know. I only have an idea, but I cannot offer any proof to back it up. But whether God started life spontaneously or gradually (or another way), has nothing to do with my belief in God.
Why would it? It's as if you believe that if you can somehow prove evolution to be false, that creationism wins by default.
Wrong.
You would then have to prove that all the other creation accounts from all the other religions are wrong.
If you can prove evolution to be wrong and simultaneously prove creation to be true based on the available (or new) evidence, then you would win the Nobel prize. Good luck.
I hope you arent going to say that God invented the first cell so life can evolve.
That's a good theory! Perhaps God did cause everything to be 'just right' for the formation of life, and 'it' simply happened.
Was it divine providence or happenstance? Or something else? I do not know.
No supernaturalism exists in a evolutionary naturalist world.
How do you know? You should have said, "No supernaturalism can be proven to exist in a naturalist world."
To get back on topic almeyda, if I discover through casual research that smoking cures cancer, I will not throw away my trust in medical science; everytime I read the bible (rarely) and I find a something that is false, historically and/or scientifically inaccurate, I do not refuse to believe that the rest of it is crap.
Jesus said to Love your neighbor as yourself. I try to follow that as much as I can. I usually have to meditate (in quite prayer of just silence my mind) to assist me.
My neighbors are as F'd up as I am! lol!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by almeyda, posted 05-30-2004 11:48 PM almeyda has not replied

  
MonkeyBoy
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 189 (111819)
05-31-2004 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by almeyda
05-31-2004 8:03 AM


But which God is he basing his belief on?
I do not know, except that I believe that all Gods are one.
And if the God of the Bible then you have compromised and reinterpreted Gods words destroying your "holy book" as a absolute authority and only another guide of morals, you also leave yourself open to all other ideas of the world and not strictly Gods as he commands do not worship false Gods or doctrines which are not on Christ.
I do not believe that the God of the bible exists, except in the minds of the writers; they were unware of what causes storms, famine, death and disease. So I believe that God was unjustly credited with starting those things to happen.
Oh, and I do not believe that Jesus was divine.
And if its some other God you believe in then where are your getting his information from what religion textbook or belief.
I think that you and I believe in the same God, but that you are basing your belief off of a book, and thus the title of this thread. The biblical God 'chilled out' as the bible progresses; I do not think it has been established that the books appear in the bible in the order that they were written in; but in the NT, satan is credited with causing the very things that God was supposed to cause. Blame shifting perhaps? I believe that it was simply a matter of misinterpretation.
The bible does not have the luxury of changing it's words, since it is believed by biblical believers to be complete. But, science changes based on new evidence. I just cannot believe that you or anyone would abandon your faith just because a book is wrong in a few or many places.
And if your God says in the beginning life evolved by me. Then my friend you are ok by me. Its your belief and thats that.
Not t osound like a complete a'hole, but it matters to me not if my beliefs are 'ok with you'. My faith is personal and with the exception of this forum, I do not discuss it. I have shared a few of my beliefs with my wife and son, but only whenthey want to discuss it.
Thanks again for your reply.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by almeyda, posted 05-31-2004 8:03 AM almeyda has not replied

  
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