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Author Topic:   What is the biggest bible contradiction?
nator
Member (Idle past 2198 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 31 of 311 (366036)
11-26-2006 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Neutralmind
11-21-2006 10:06 AM


My favorite contradiction is that while Matthew Mark, and Luke all have Jesus being crucified after Passover (the last supper being the Passover meal), Mark crucifies Jesus before Passover.
Mark is very different from the other gospels and shows a shift in depicting Jesus as a military savior who would literally save the Jews from their oppressors to a spiritual savior who's death was symbolic of the saving of souls and the granting of eternal life in heaven.

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 Message 1 by Neutralmind, posted 11-21-2006 10:06 AM Neutralmind has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by zaron, posted 11-26-2006 11:45 AM nator has replied
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nator
Member (Idle past 2198 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 34 of 311 (366073)
11-26-2006 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by zaron
11-26-2006 11:45 AM


Re: Am I late??
quote:
I do not see a contradiction there... Could you be more specific?
concerning the time of crucifixion.. maybe if you read it through a little better it will be more clear.
I did read it through, and have done so many times.
It is perfectly clear.
Matthew, Mark and Luke have Jesus being crucified after Passover.
John times the crucifiction as happening before Passover.
That is a clear, unambiguous contradiction.
Matthew's version:
26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
26:19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.
26:20 Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
Mark's version:
14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
14:13 And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
14:14 And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
14:15 And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.
14:16 And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
14:17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
14:18 And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.
Luke's version:
22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
22:9 And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
22:10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
22:12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
22:21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
John's version:
(bold added by me)
19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
19:16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
19:18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
And later in the chapter, they hurry to remove Jesus from the cross because it was a preparation for a "high" day and the Sabbath.
(Bold added by me)
19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
So, you see, it is very clear that there are two very different versions of the timing of the crucifiction of Jesus; one taking place after Passover, and one happening before it ever starts.
That is contradictory.
If I say that something happened before January 7th, and some other people say it happened after January 7th, we can't both be correct, can we? Our versions contradict each other.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by zaron, posted 11-26-2006 11:45 AM zaron has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Chiroptera, posted 11-26-2006 12:46 PM nator has not replied
 Message 36 by anastasia, posted 11-26-2006 2:38 PM nator has replied
 Message 37 by anastasia, posted 11-26-2006 2:51 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2198 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 40 of 311 (366162)
11-26-2006 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by anastasia
11-26-2006 2:38 PM


Re: Am I late??
Not enough time passes in the first three gospels for your explanation of John to work.
In fact, in every gospel except for John, Jesus dies the very next day, after the Last Supper.
In addition, why is the Last Supper so explicity a Passover meal, recounted very nearly identically in the first three gosples, but there is no mention of it in John?
I've also got to mention that this is an explanation that I haven't heard yet, and it contradicts the other explanations I've gotten from other believers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by anastasia, posted 11-26-2006 2:38 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by anastasia, posted 11-26-2006 11:19 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2198 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 44 of 311 (366271)
11-27-2006 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by anastasia
11-26-2006 11:47 PM


Apologetics is so very boring.
It's a lot like Astrology in that no matter what you think the problem or contradiction is, there is always something you can use to make it correct.
Biblical Apologetics just points out to me that the Bible is so squishy and maleable that it can be made to mean and say just about anything.
...which means it says nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by anastasia, posted 11-26-2006 11:47 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by anastasia, posted 11-27-2006 4:26 PM nator has not replied

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