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Author
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Topic: For Wolf - Prophecy, Coincidence, or Made Up?
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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6267 days) Posts: 392 Joined: 05-28-2003
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Message 8 of 113 (231425)
08-09-2005 2:07 PM
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Tal, First of all, thank you for taking the time to express your position so clearly. It is certainly true that, so long as one views the New Testament accounts as accurate history, it is very difficult to interpret many "Old Testament" verses as anything other than prophecy. But Tal, many of us do not view the New Testament accounts as accurate history but, rather, as fiction and legend written many decades after the presumed events. From our standpoint, there is nothing at all mysterious or difficult about forging a narrative to look like prophecy fulfilled. What makes this view ever more compelling is the fact that a common form of Jewish story-telling at the time (salled Midrash) can be characterized as parable using the Tanach (the Jewish scriptures) as prooftext. There is no prophecy. There is only late 1st century story-telling, and most of it is not done very well at all. This message has been edited by ConsequentAtheist, 08-09-2005 02:10 PM
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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6267 days) Posts: 392 Joined: 05-28-2003
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Message 44 of 113 (231530)
08-09-2005 4:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 33 by Rahvin
08-09-2005 3:58 PM
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quote:
The math in these books is total bunk. They assume such things as "the probability of God's existance is 1 in 2." As in He either exists or He doesn't. But that's not the case - Either He exists, or Zeus exists, or there is no God, or there are many gods, or an infinite amount of other possibilities that are equally likely. The actual probability of God's existance is 1 in infinity! And it's circular logic to boot.
That is an amazing argument (in favor of the need for improved math education).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by Rahvin, posted 08-09-2005 3:58 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 45 by Rahvin, posted 08-09-2005 4:58 PM | | ConsequentAtheist has replied |
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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6267 days) Posts: 392 Joined: 05-28-2003
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Message 46 of 113 (231544)
08-09-2005 5:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 45 by Rahvin
08-09-2005 4:58 PM
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quote:
Well, the guy in the quote I provided was, as I recall, a philosophy professor. Obviously he should stick with that, and leave the probabilities to the math majors.
Yes: leave the math to the math majors. I was thinking the very same thing about the guy I quoted ... This message has been edited by ConsequentAtheist, 08-09-2005 05:24 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by Rahvin, posted 08-09-2005 4:58 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 47 by CK, posted 08-09-2005 5:25 PM | | ConsequentAtheist has not replied | | | Message 48 by Rahvin, posted 08-09-2005 5:30 PM | | ConsequentAtheist has not replied | | | Message 49 by CK, posted 08-09-2005 5:33 PM | | ConsequentAtheist has not replied |
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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6267 days) Posts: 392 Joined: 05-28-2003
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Message 97 of 113 (232323)
08-11-2005 2:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 94 by Tal
08-11-2005 1:44 PM
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Re: Moderator Request for Tal
Daniel says that 483 prophetic years (70 weeks = 70 x 7 years) will occur between the order to rebuild Jerusalem and the death of Messiah. These 483 prophetic years (360 days/year) correspond to 476.067 of our years (Julian years). Now we can count 476 years from 444 B.C. As we pass from B.C. to A.D. we gain a year since there is no 0 B.C. or A.D. 0. Eventually, we arrive at A.D. 33. Daniel says that after that date Jesus Christ dies and Jesus does die, at the end of the week on 14 Nissan A.D. 33. What a pathetic joke. Let's see what it says before being bastardized ...
Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sin, and to forgive iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal vision and prophet, and to anoint the most holy place. Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem unto one anointed, a prince, shall be seven weeks; and for threescore and two weeks, it shall be built again, with broad place and moat, but in troublous times. And after the threescore and two weeks shall an anointed one be cut off, and be no more; and the people of a prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; but his end shall be with a flood; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and upon the wing of detestable things shall be that which causeth appalment; and that until the extermination wholly determined be poured out upon that which causeth appalment.'
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by Tal, posted 08-11-2005 1:44 PM | | Tal has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 99 by Tal, posted 08-11-2005 2:12 PM | | ConsequentAtheist has not replied |
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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6267 days) Posts: 392 Joined: 05-28-2003
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Message 100 of 113 (232332)
08-11-2005 2:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 98 by Tal
08-11-2005 2:08 PM
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Re: Moderator Request for Tal
Secular history supports the Bible. For example, in The Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 the famous historian Flavius Josephus writes: ...
Anyone who would reference TF as secular support for the historicity of the Bible is willfully ignorant. Go read something on Josephus before you further embarrass yourself.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by Tal, posted 08-11-2005 2:08 PM | | Tal has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 101 by Tal, posted 08-11-2005 2:19 PM | | ConsequentAtheist has replied |
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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6267 days) Posts: 392 Joined: 05-28-2003
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Message 103 of 113 (232346)
08-11-2005 2:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 101 by Tal
08-11-2005 2:19 PM
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Re: Moderator Request for Tal
quote:
Pssst..that's why I listed 2 (there are more).
—Tal
No, you quoted two because it was easy to plagiarize. You clearly haven't a clue what you're quoting or what it proves. Your pervasive ignorance is disgraceful. How, for example, does Tacitus prove anything other than his familiarity with Christian mythology? Again: read more, plagiarize less.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by Tal, posted 08-11-2005 2:19 PM | | Tal has not replied |
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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6267 days) Posts: 392 Joined: 05-28-2003
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Message 107 of 113 (232409)
08-11-2005 4:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 104 by Rahvin
08-11-2005 3:24 PM
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Re: Moderator Request for Talopted
This appears to show that Christianity is a copy of a previous faith. What say you?
Modern scholarship pretty much discounts this. See, e.g., Roman Cult of Mithras: The God and His Mysteries This message has been edited by ConsequentAtheist, 08-11-2005 04:07 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 104 by Rahvin, posted 08-11-2005 3:24 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 108 by Rahvin, posted 08-11-2005 4:25 PM | | ConsequentAtheist has replied |
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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6267 days) Posts: 392 Joined: 05-28-2003
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Message 109 of 113 (232420)
08-11-2005 4:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 108 by Rahvin
08-11-2005 4:25 PM
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Re: Moderator Request for Talopted
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 108 by Rahvin, posted 08-11-2005 4:25 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 110 by Rahvin, posted 08-11-2005 4:59 PM | | ConsequentAtheist has not replied |
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