Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   fulfilled prophecy - specific examples.
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3697 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 232 of 262 (447060)
01-07-2008 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by jaywill
01-07-2008 7:12 AM


Re: Resurrection Appearances
quote:
Direct eyewitness testimony was either written or superintended the writing concerning the supernatural deeds and life of Jesus.
In the Gospels the eyewitnesses were Matthew, Peter (through Mark), and John. Other eyewitnesses and written accounts were utlized by Luke and Paul. So there is a substantial body of testimonial.
The death of Jesus was witnessed by
Yes, but the most credible eye witnesses must be allocated first to the Jews, and second to the pre-islamic peoples from this vicinity and spacetime, before that of a European view. I find the belief of christians in general to be sincere and Gdly inclined, but the gospels lacking - not by what is says but what it does not: namely the mass murder of 1.1 Million other Jews in the same spacetime it is reporting, and causing a view of rejection and disbelief upon the Jews which has no basis whatsoever. I find the aspect of non-belief levied on others, even 2000 year established belief systems of the Jews, who have long evidenced their beliefs with other nations in history, based only on the premises of the gospels, very wanting and antithetical.
Examine this historic event of 2000 years ago recorded in the Josephus documents, not mentioned at all in the NT, but which occured in its very midst, of a people proving their belief as no other in all recorded history:
quote:
Eleazar: “My brethren, hear me now I pray at each and all of you. Let us resolve now never to be servants to the Romans, nor to any other than to God himself, who alone is the true and just Lord of mankind. Resolve now to declare unto Rome and the rest of mankind there is only one God and there is no other besides, for the time is now come that obliges us to make that resolution true in practice. Let not our lot be shame and contradiction of who we are, that again we must defend against slavery and for liberty.
We were the very first that revolted against slavery, and we are the last that fight against them; do you understand me, dear sacred and holy peoples - we, now and here, are the last to declare this ultimate truth to the world. And I cannot but esteem it as a favor that God hath granted us, that it is still in our power to die bravely, and in a state of freedom, which hath not been the lot of others, who succumbed to the depravity and falsehoods of Rome.
It is very plain that we shall be taken within a day's time; this is what our enemies themselves cannot by any means hinder, although they be very desirous to take us alive. God, who had of old taken the Jewish nation into his favor, had now condemned them to destruction; how God hath convinced us that our hopes were in vain, for the nature of this fortress which was in itself unconquerable, hath not proved a means of our deliverance; and even while we have still great abundance of food, and a great quantity of arms, and other necessaries more than we want, we are openly deprived by God himself of all hope of deliverance; for that fire which was driven upon our enemies did not of its own accord turn back upon the wall which we had built; this was the effect of God's anger against us for our manifold sins, which we have been guilty of in a most insolent and extravagant manner with regard to our own countrymen; the punishments of which let us not receive from the Romans, but from God himself, as executed by our own hands; for these will be more moderate than the other.
“Let our wives die before they are abused, and our children before they have tasted of slavery; and after we have slain them, let us bestow that glorious benefit upon one another mutually, and preserve ourselves in freedom, as an excellent funeral monument for us.
But let us spare nothing but our provisions; for they will be a testimonial when we are dead that we were not subdued for want of necessaries, but that, according to our original resolution, we have preferred death before slavery"
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by jaywill, posted 01-07-2008 7:12 AM jaywill has not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3697 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 233 of 262 (447069)
01-07-2008 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by jaywill
01-07-2008 8:01 AM


Re: My bottom line on John 2:18-22
quote:
If Jesus said it it is more likely that Jesus meant nothing more than the Temple in Jeru was to be destroyed.
This lacks every credibility, at least if it is allocated to a Jew here. It would have been known to all Jews and non-jews, this would require a genocide and a nation's destruction, and it ill serves the standing of Jesus to allocate this upon him. This is specially so when the attrocities commited by Rome are not factored in, and deflected to other far less premises, eg hapless money changers because they performed a 2000 year observence in rowdy or less than adequate mode: it pales in comparison to what the Romans were upto.
Fact is, the temple's destruction was stated by other Jewish writers, evidenced by such writings well before the gospels, and the reason the arc of the covenant was hidden away. The temple was always the main target of other nations, for its 2000 year treasury, and its opposition to divine emperors. There can be no merit of prophesy for making such a claim, which is most probably a retrospective one. There is no contemporanous writings of the gospels, which is a great anomoly, considering this was a time when writings were plentiful and commonplace [The Scrolls; Josephus; Roman & Greek archives; etc].
The verses which say, 'not a brick shall stand' is also disproven: 1000s of these bricks stand at the wall in Jerusalem today, which is still a target for destruction by the arab muslims, whereby even its past existence being deemed as a myth. If any prophesy is vindicated here, it applies only to the OT premise of a 'remnant' being left as a return significance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by jaywill, posted 01-07-2008 8:01 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by jaywill, posted 01-12-2008 4:55 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024