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Author Topic:   the phylogeographic challenge to creationism
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 170 of 298 (265651)
12-05-2005 4:42 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Faith
12-05-2005 2:49 AM


Re: Yes, "speciation" = reduction of genetic diversity
How is "polymorphism" different from "more alleles and variable loci?"
It isn't.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Faith, posted 12-05-2005 2:49 AM Faith has replied

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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 234 of 298 (266543)
12-07-2005 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by RAZD
12-07-2005 6:45 PM


Re: copy errors = mutations or random mistakes.
Are there other mechanisms for change?
There are some heritable states of epigenetic modification such as DNA methylation or changes in histone acetylation/methylation.
I'm assuming that by 'mutation' you mean a change in the primary sequence of DNA.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by RAZD, posted 12-07-2005 6:45 PM RAZD has replied

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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 238 of 298 (266708)
12-08-2005 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by RAZD
12-07-2005 8:13 PM


Re: copy errors = mutations or random mistakes.
while copy errors are ones that can reproduce whole segments of DNA
Are you defining 'copy' errors as changes in copy number for a stretch of DNA rather than errors during the process of copying a DNA strand? Almost all point mutations, of whatever type, are due to errors in the copying of the DNA strand.
I think that part of the problem is that your concept of 'copy' errors is unorthodox.
Works as a means to preserve genetic function?
Not really, methylation of DNA is usually associated with the compacting of the chromatin to heterochromatin which is usually transcriptionally non-active. Methylation is usually a factor
in the repression of expression of a gene. This may act to maintain genetic integrity to some extent since more transcriptionally active genes are often more prone to mutation, but that doesn't seem to be its primary function.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by RAZD, posted 12-07-2005 8:13 PM RAZD has replied

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 Message 261 by RAZD, posted 12-09-2005 6:41 PM Wounded King has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 255 of 298 (267083)
12-09-2005 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by TimChase
12-08-2005 9:54 PM


Re: Hypermutation!
Some thought that an RNA transcription of the missing allele might be hanging around, but it turned out that the gene was hypermutative.
Do you have a reference? I know that there have been a couple of alternative hypotheses put forward (Comai and Cartwright, 2005; Chaudhury, 2005), but I was unaware that there was definitive research on the subject.
TTFN,
WK

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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 263 of 298 (267310)
12-09-2005 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by RAZD
12-09-2005 6:41 PM


Re: copy errors =
For the record, I use copy errors to mean error in the reproduction of the DNA during the reproduction process, whether it adds or deletes segments or places then in the wrong order or direction.
To be honest this doesn't really clarify things. This definition would also include the vast majority of single site mutations which you were defining as distinct from 'copy errors'.
By 'reproduction process' do you mean DNA synthesis in general, as in the S phase of the cell cycle, or specifically DNA synthesis ocurring in the gametes?
You seem to be making a fairly arbitrary distinction here.
TTFN,
WK

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 Message 261 by RAZD, posted 12-09-2005 6:41 PM RAZD has replied

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 Message 267 by RAZD, posted 12-09-2005 8:40 PM Wounded King has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 271 of 298 (267430)
12-10-2005 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by RAZD
12-09-2005 8:40 PM


Re: copy errors =
In one case you have mutations - changes - happening to DNA in a random process independent of reproduction. Radiation whatever.
In the other case you have mistakes made in the replication of the DNA.
How is this difference arbitrary?
Because these aren't 2 different cases. Virtually every single instance of a mutation of any kind, point, inversion, duplication, deletion is the result of the process of DNA replication. When mutagenic factors alter DNA they frequently only affect 1 strand and the alteration they produce is frequently not a chemical conversion of a nucleotide to a totally different valid nucleotide but to a particularly chemically altered form of the original nucleotide or an aberant form of a different nucleotide (Alberts, et al, 2002).It is only when the DNA is copied and a new strand syntesised using the altered nucleotide as a template that a proper complementary nucleotide is introduced into the base pair, and only after a subsequent round of reproduction that a double strand will be produced with 2 properly complementary normal nucleotides.
Arguably retroviral insertions don't require DNA synthesis, at least on the part of the host cell, but in the almost all classes of mutation rely on DNA synthesis, or replication, to effect a valid change in the coding sequence.
That is why your distinction is arbitrary, because the processes you categorise in 1, 'radiation whatever', are also the result of your category 2 'mistakes made in the replication of DNA'.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by RAZD, posted 12-09-2005 8:40 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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