Willowtree's Scientific Evidence against Evolution

I have made the following points to Willowtree in the "Evidence for Evolution Top 10 Reasons" thread, but I will repeat here some of them.I am a born again Christian. Seventeen years ago I was baptised, received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. Don't fear! Unlike some of the Christians here, I will not be using this forum to promote my beliefs (contact me directly if you wish!) because Evolution and Creationism can be discussed purely on the basis of scientific evidence, INDEPENDENT OF PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEFS.This is one thing Willowtree cannot seem to grasp.My "God sense" has far from been removed. I can reconcile my beliefs, the Bible and our scientific knowledge of the world. The people of my church and I all find the case for Evolution to be profoundly convincing, based on:150 years worth of scientific research, abundant evidence from fossils (the order in which they appear in the strata, and the sufficiency of transitionals) correlation between dating techniques, geographical distribution of animals, observations of natural selection and mutation, lack of conceivable barriers from micro to macro evolution (why is it so incoceivable for a reptile to evolve into a bird, a land mammal into a whale... or even a "microbe into a man" through gradual change in millions of years when we can observe the transitional power of life in a caterpillar changing into a butterfly, or a tadpole into a frog... or a single celled zygote into a fully grown human being in 18 years and 9 months!) knowledge of DNA and genomes and of course the plethora of life and earth sciences that indepedently support and correlate evolution everyday. And this very knowledge is added to practically everyday.I acknowledge man's ability to deny God, but Willow, this is a massive consipiracy that you are dreaming up.While I know that many scientists have not had a personal experience of God, the scientific method increases the legitmacy of their studies and disciplines. I do not doubt the professional integrity of many Christian and non-Christian scientists whom I call my friends. You cannot just dump them (including non-scientists like myself) into the same atheist bag.Quit playing your conspiracy theory card. No-one buys it here anymore.If it will help you get over it, I invite you to direct evidenciary arguments towards to scientists who are christians, or non-scientist Christians like myself. I will state again (with some reservation) that after reading this board for sometime, I am prepared to personally support the arguments put forward by most of the pro-evolutionary posters on this board (NosyNed, world, -mooseus, Rei, Darwinsterrier, crashfrog, Zhimbo etc). Hopefully this will help you get over your conspiracy theories and philosophical arguments so we can make some inroads into analysing the "evidence" you have put forward.(By the way Leaky died in 1972, so I can't imaging anything he wrote is particularly current)I will also take the opportunity to reiterate my statements to fellow Christains: Your faith and salvation will not turn on the issue of Evolution vs Creationism. Approach the debate with honest intregity and research all you can. For those who have a scientific background and can conduct research, Creationist sites are their own worst enemy: they simply do not stand up to scrutiny. One side of this debate works with a theory on a daily basis: it's validity is not seriously questioned because it is a very useful body of knowledge that is tested and verified by scientists from many fields around the world everyday (No Willow, this is not Creationism). On the other side is an unfortunate group of people with an agenda that compromises their personal and intellectual intergity as well as their Christian values.Note above (and across this forum) that Willowtree repeatedly asks for fossil evidence. As above he is repeatedly provided with numerous links to very detailed fossil lineages, including sifnificant transitionals. Again, I suspect he will merely parrot the request for the fossil evidence...Christianity and Evolution are completely compatible. The path to salvation is thorugh Jesus Christ, not through gullibility, deception and dogma.[This message has been edited by Light, 12-29-2003][This message has been edited by Light, 12-29-2003]

Unfortunately work constraints have prevented me (and will continue to do so) from defending myself against any of the personal attacks made by WT against my faith in this and other threads.I see here another Christian is assailed (Trixie).I'd like to point out to all Christians that Dr.Gene Scott's interpetation of Romans Chapter 1 verses 18 - 25 is an attempt to use psychological blackmail to convince his covertees to never even consider the validity of Evolution (lest they lose their "God sense"). His interpretation (which is an abberation of most Christian views of Romans) is that if you deny God as a creator (creator in the literal sense of Genesis) then you will damned by losing your ability to ever see God's work. According to Scott failing to acknowledge God as the creator (Genesis style), will cost you your salvation. The circular nature of this reasoning has been repeatedly pointed out in these threads.Don't believe a word of this blatantly anti-Christian nonsense.It is a desperate and unsustainable scare tactic generated to compell his follows into irrational blind allegiance on matters of biological origins. His followers can then be seen to go on to make pointless attacks on evolution purely on "philosophical and theistic grounds" because the unfortunate reality is, Creationism is cannot be sustained by evidence.As I have stated before, your salvation will definitely not turn upon your belief in a literal creation. The invisible things from "creation" can be seen in the universe that he set in motion through natural processes and through the wonderous creatures (including man) that have evolved according to his laws (laws of the universe).God will forgive any man of his sins and salvation is available to all. It is certainly not even a sin to be convinced by evolution (in fact it is an intellectual imperative).

You're really asking for it, Sidelined. I don't dare to watch.