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Author Topic:   "Modern Cell Biology doesn't support Darwinism"
randman 
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Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 1 of 87 (285533)
02-10-2006 12:22 PM


A Pitt professor challenged a part of Darwin’s Theory of Evolution in an article published in the scientific magazine The New Anatomist last week.
....Schwartz refuted Darwin’s theory of gradual evolution in organisms with one that states that evolution occurs quickly and suddenly as the result of cell mutations.
“Darwinism’s presence in science is so overwhelming,” Schwartz said. “For the longest time, there was no room for alternative thinking among the scientific community.”
This has led Schwartz ” who believes that this indoctrination has resulted in scientists who don’t know enough about the history of the theories they learned ” to teach all different aspects of evolution to his students.
....
Darwin’s theory, a staple in science curriculums, states that evolution in organisms occurs gradually over time. His theory also states that gaps in the fossil record, in which there are missing links between the different phases of evolution in organisms are temporary because the linking fossils haven’t been found yet.
Schwartz, through research of the fossil record and use of Maresca’s findings about cell structure, believes otherwise.
“If you look at the fossil record, organisms didn’t gain new items like teeth and jaws gradually,” Schwartz said. “It’s not like fish developed bony teeth one piece at a time. It happened suddenly.”
... Modern cell biology doesn’t support Darwinism.”
Page not found - The Pitt News
These guys have published their paper, and though refuting Darwinism, it is still evolution. What is interesting to me is how they assert the same facts I have asserted here concerning the fossil record.
Note: the thread title is a quote from them, but is not meant to convey the topic is really about just cell biology. It is about their ideas, which include the fossil record, and the fact they have published this idea.
This message has been edited by randman, 02-10-2006 12:24 PM

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 7 of 87 (285564)
02-10-2006 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by nwr
02-10-2006 12:55 PM


Punctuated Equilibrium
Maybe they are confused on what PE says since it seems over time, evos have said so many things about PE. I can't blame them if they did see PE now as asserting that the fossil record is explained via gaps rather than rapid, "sudden" change since that's what evos started saying when creationists pointed out that PE descriptions of the fossil record matched what they had been saying for years.
I guess someone will have to post something of the original paper to know.
It is interesting that they feel the fossil record and cell biology to accord with mainstream evolutionist claims.

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randman 
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Posts: 6367
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Message 8 of 87 (285565)
02-10-2006 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by crashfrog
02-10-2006 12:59 PM


folks like me, eh?
But folks like you keep on doing it
You mean these 2 university professors that published their theory just recently?

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randman 
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Message 9 of 87 (285566)
02-10-2006 1:08 PM


what to make of this?
His theory also states that gaps in the fossil record, in which there are missing links between the different phases of evolution in organisms are temporary because the linking fossils haven’t been found yet.
Schwartz, through research of the fossil record and use of Maresca’s findings about cell structure, believes otherwise.
“If you look at the fossil record, organisms didn’t gain new items like teeth and jaws gradually,” Schwartz said. “It’s not like fish developed bony teeth one piece at a time. It happened suddenly.”
It appears he is saying that the fossil record is more complete than evos say, and credits the sudden appearance of changes as evidence not of just fossil rarity and not finding the gaps, but that something like a whole new set of teeth appears suddenly and so there are no fossils of the gradual change.
My point is that this is an admission of what I and many have been saying about the fossil record all along.

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randman 
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Posts: 6367
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Message 16 of 87 (285590)
02-10-2006 1:38 PM


hmmm....
The wackos are out in full-force, I see.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
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Message 18 of 87 (285596)
02-10-2006 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by nwr
02-10-2006 1:43 PM


Re: hmmm....
Crash and Shraf primarily. I am not sure how better to characterize their posts.
This message has been edited by randman, 02-10-2006 01:44 PM

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randman 
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Message 20 of 87 (285602)
02-10-2006 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by crashfrog
02-10-2006 1:48 PM


Re: hmmm....
Maybe if there was some argument in there to refute and some reasoning, you'd have a point.

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randman 
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Posts: 6367
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Message 24 of 87 (285699)
02-10-2006 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Brad McFall
02-10-2006 5:36 PM


zing again over my head but...
But I think I got more of this than most of your posts.
What do you think of the idea that a full set of teeth could appear in a toothless creature?

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randman 
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Message 27 of 87 (285715)
02-10-2006 6:36 PM


sounds like Faith
Maybe some around here should give her more credit, as isn't this similar to the argument she made.
Morgan provided Darwinism and the evolutionary synthesis with the idea that minor mutations produce the minuscule morphological variations on which natural selection then acts, and that, although mutation is random, once a process of gradual genetic modification begins, it becomes directional and leads to morphological, and consequently organismal, transformation. In contrast, studies on the role of cell membrane physical states in regulating the expression of stress proteins in response to environmental shifts indicate the existence of a downstream mechanism that prevents or corrects genetic change (i.e., maintains "DNA homeostasis").
shortened link
Evidently, this is not the laughable, hopelessly ignorant idea that some evcers insisted it was, or surely the journal would have rejected the paper.
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 02-10-2006 05:41 PM

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randman 
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Posts: 6367
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Message 54 of 87 (286330)
02-14-2006 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by nwr
02-10-2006 7:16 PM


Re: A reassessment
The best thing creationists have had going for them, is that the traditional neo-Darwinist mechanism of statistical filtering of genes has seemed to some people (Fred Hoyle, a number of mathematicians) as too weak to account for the actual evolution that is seen. If Maresca and Schwartz are proposing a more powerful mechanism for change, and one that will more obviously produce the punctuated equilibrium seen in the fossil record, then the best argument of creationists will have been rendered void.
One reason I wonder about taking evos seriously is the tendency to never acknowledge a fact or argument as having merit until evos can come up with some explanation for it. This smacks of me of a sort of deliberateness and straightforward biasness which calls into question whether objectivity is part of the evo mindset.

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randman 
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Message 55 of 87 (286331)
02-14-2006 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Garrett
02-13-2006 10:14 AM


Re: hmmm....
very good point

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randman 
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Posts: 6367
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Message 56 of 87 (286333)
02-14-2006 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by crashfrog
02-13-2006 10:55 AM


Re: AIG lies - TalkOrigins FTW
Crash, actually it looks like AIG is correct and TalkOrigins is wrong. Read the end of the article.
Skeptics Choke on Frog | Answers in Genesis

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randman 
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Posts: 6367
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Message 58 of 87 (286337)
02-14-2006 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by crashfrog
02-14-2006 12:57 AM


well, a third party corroborates
Gillian sent a copy of the original audio tape of the interview with Dawkins to a friend of mine. He sent the tape to me.
”I will state categorically that the audio tape of the interview 100% supports Gillian Brown’s contention that Dawkins couldn’t answer the question.’
Note this is from someone unfriendly to the creationist position.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 65 of 87 (287650)
02-17-2006 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by nator
02-17-2006 10:13 AM


Re: A reassessment
Are you claiming crashfrog's wife is working on trying to review the arguments and data for ToE to see if it is true? If so, can you please provide some papers she has written to that effect so I can comment on them?

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randman 
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Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 67 of 87 (287664)
02-17-2006 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by crashfrog
02-17-2006 12:16 PM


Re: A reassessment
Moreover, her work itself constitutes an implied argument for evolution; if evolution is false her work cannot proceed. It would be absolutely impossible for her to work on what she is working on were evolution false.
why?

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