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Member (Idle past 5938 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Inerrancy of the Bible 2 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
MangyTiger Member (Idle past 6383 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
You should put this link in the Jericho and Ai: Fictional history in the Book of Joshua that Brian started. Sadly both his main opponents in that thread have been banished into the outer wilderness but he might be interested in it - or not.
Confused ? You will be...
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lfen Member (Idle past 4707 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
Because I trust this internal perception(God Himself) rather than my own internal perception. How do you know which "internal perception" is whose? i.e. when you had an internal perception how do you decide to assign it to God, yourself, or if you are like Buz and some others believe in demons to a demon? Ever see the movie Animal House? Where the guy had a little angel and little devil on this shoulders talking to him? They do this in cartoons also. ABE: [clicked submit now by mistake.] I don't think that is what you mean but you are making choices about your thoughts, intentions, beliefs and in doing so it sounds to me like you are assigning some to God, some to what you call yourself but this self is not identical with the self making the selection? I'm wondering if you think that others might have similiar experiences to yours only the perceptions you call "God Himself" they might term Krishna, or their higher self, or organismic intelligence? lfen This message has been edited by lfen, 01-26-2005 14:43 AM
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lfen Member (Idle past 4707 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
Incognito,
Okay, I see science is not your cup of tea and the Bible is the happier way for you to go. Best of luck, lfen
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
then they would still have to eat, sleep, and leave their bowel movements.. Not to mention - bury their dead; mend/discard worn out shoes, clothing, and blankets; discard unwanted luggage; abandon ruined carts; lose things by accident; leave trail messages for those bringing up the rear; light fires for warmth, comfort, and guidance; and there is that whole "melting down hundreds of pounds of gold jewelry to forge a golden calf", which would have necessitated burning tons of brush down to charcoal and then improvising some kind of bellows. All without a trace. My, how amazing!
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johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
God is saying, "Job, canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades? Can you capture Pleiades, springtime, and keep it all the time? You're going to have to have some wintertime too, or you won't enjoy the springtime." God says, "Can you loose the bands of Orion? Can you stop Orion from coming? Can you thwart the chill of winter? You can't stay in springtime always.
Pleiades and Orion
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 764 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
From the sermon you linked, Tom:
When the Pleiades become more visible, it is obvious to the ones who know the stars and know the bright cluster of stars that springtime is coming soon. Orion is a constellation that announces the coming of winter.
This preacher has never been a stargazer, huh? If the Pleiades announce Spring, Orion announces late Spring. It's about a month behind the Pleiades, no matter what sort of appirition you're talking about. The guy needs a fact-checker...or just a planisphere.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Dr. Aardsma?? Isn't that the guy from the IRC who had that bizarre idea about the speed of light decaying?? You know, the guy that slams carbon dating, and all that sort of stuff.
You want to use HIM as a source?? How about if you point to a peer reviewed archelogical journal with an article by him on this subject. I don't mean pointing to a web site that appeals the scientifically naive, and talks about looking for noahs ark, misreprenting radiocarbon dating, and lies. Just a good peer reviewed article. If someone is going to try to use archelogy and science to prove a point, they should go through scientific review. I did find a review of the proposal on bibleorigns.net AardsmaExodusTheoryEBII It tears the concept up to shreds. This message has been edited by ramoss, 01-26-2005 18:46 AM
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JonF Member (Idle past 198 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Dr. Aardsma?? Isn't that the guy from the IRC who had that bizarre idea about the speed of light decaying?? You know, the guy that slams carbon dating, and all that sort of stuff. Geem you are almost as confused as a creationist. Dr. Aardsma is an honest man who's really trying. Not even in the same ballpark as Hovind and Ham and Gish and Brown. He's deluded about some things, but on others he's solid. When he was with the ICR (he left, apparently because he couldn't put up with their policy of wholesale evidence-ignoring), he wrote HAS THE SPEED OF LIGHT DECAYED?, pointing out that Setterfield's analysis of speed-of-light measurements (which led Setterfield to believe that the speed of light was faster in the past) was fatally flawed. It was one of the first major criticisms of Setterfield and "c-decay". At How does the radiocarbon dating method work? he presents an accurate and well-written discussion of C-14 dating, which ends with: "Radiocarbon dating is a valuable tool to chronologists and archaeologists. It provides an objective, absolute method of determining a sample's age with quantifiable precision." So your impression of him is not only wrong, it's 180-degrees-opposite wrong. He's not a crackpot, he's just wrong in some areas. He's not published much (if at all) in the mainstream literature, but his stuff is worthy of consideration and, if it's wrong, considerate and accurate refutations based on the evidence, with sources listed.
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johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
Coragyps, I find it interesting how the baptist pastor said: Orion has never come without the Pleiades being around the corner.
The Ordinances of Heaven Established on the Earth.
http://bibletools.org/...fuseaction/Def.show/RTD/ISBE/ID/911 The astronomical antithesis between Mazzaroth, the constellations of the zodiac ("led forth" each "in its season"), and 'Ayish, "the Bear with her train" ("guided" in its unceasing revolution round the pole), is so complete and astronomically appropriate, that there is reason to expect an antithesis as clear and as astronomically significant between the two clauses of the preceding verse. But the rendering of the Revised Version (British and American) does not afford anything of the kind: "Canst thou bind the cluster of the Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?" is simply equivalent to the question as to whether Job could fix these stars in their places in the sky; and for an inquiry so perfectly general, one constellation would be no more appropriate than another. The true rendering must certainly bring out some difference or at least distinction between the two constellations or the use that was made of them. And in the third passage in which Kimah and Kecil are mentioned together an important distinction is hinted at. The order in Amos 5:8 suggests that the Pleiades corresponded in some way to daybreak, Orion to nightfall: "That maketh the Pleiades and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night." Sunrise turns "the shadow of death into the morning," and in the progress of the seasons the analogous change on the higher scale is effected when Nature revives from the death of winter in the morning of the year, that is to say, at the return of spring. And at the time of the origin of the constellations the Pleiades were the harbingers of this change at their "cosmical" rising, that is to say, when they rose with the sun at daybreak they brought back the "delights" of springtime. Similarly sunset makes "the day dark with night," and in the progress of the seasons the analogous change on the higher scale is effected when the long nights and short days of winter set in the evening of the year, and all nature is bound as by iron bands, in cold and frost. And at the time of the origin of the constellations, the "acronychal" rising of Orion, i.e. its rising at nightfall, was the harbinger of this change; the rigor of winter formed "the bands of Orion." These regular changes in the appearings and positions of the constellations constitute the ordinances of the heavens, ordinances which Job could neither alter for the worse by holding back the delights of springtime, or for the better by breaking the bonds of winter cold. But these ordinances were not confined in their effects to the heavens; their dominion was established on the earth, which answered by the revival of vegetation when the Pleiades, then nearly in conjunction with the sun, appeared for a short time before sunrise; and by the return of the constraints of cold and frost when Orion, in opposition to the sun, rode the sky the whole night long. The completeness and beauty of the imagery will now be apparent. The Pleiades stood for the East, since by their rising just before daybreak, they heralded the morning of the year and the "delights" of springtime. Orion stood for the West, since his appearing just after nightfall heralded the evening of the year, and the bands of winter cold. Mazzaroth, the twelve constellations of the zodiac, the "chambers of the south," each "led forth" from the underworld in its own "season," stood for the South. And the "Bear with her train," "guided" in their unceasing course round the pole, stood for the circumpolar constellations in the North. And the movements of them all in a perfect obedience to the law of God were the ordinances of heaven; whilst the dominion of them was seen to be established upon the earth in the constant succession of the seasons there in unfailing answer to the changes in the stars above. These three verses give us a vivid picture of the work of primitive astronomy. The science was then in an early stage of development, but it was a real science, a science of observation, thoroughly sound so far as it had progressed, and showing high intelligence on the part of those who pursued it. We now know that the movement of "the Bear with her train," that is, the apparent rotation of the heavens round the pole, is due to the real rotation of the earth upon its axis; that the bringing out of "the Mazzaroth in their season," apparently due to the revolution of the sun round the earth, is due to the real revolution of the earth round the sun. But this knowledge which has enabled us to see where the actual movements lie has not brought us any nearer penetrating the mystery of those movements. What is the ultimate cause of the rotation of this vast globe, we know no more than the ancients knew what caused the heavens to rotate; what causes it to fly through space 18 miles in every second of time, we know no more than the ancients knew why the sun appeared to move among the stars. To us, as to them, it is the power of God, and the will of God.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 764 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
What is the ultimate cause of the rotation of this vast globe, we know no more than the ancients knew what caused the heavens to rotate;
Conservation of angular momentum?
we know no more than the ancients knew why the sun appeared to move among the stars.
More conservation of angular momentum?
Orion has never come without the Pleiades being around the corner.
But it's observationally just the other way around. The Pleiades come out of the dawn a month before Orion. Whether any of the ancients actually mixed evening and morning appearances and risings as this quote suggests, I truly don't know. But I've never seen it mentioned in 40+ years of amateur astronomy. edtt - fix bad tag This message has been edited by Coragyps, 01-26-2005 20:35 AM
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lfen Member (Idle past 4707 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
Phat,
I just started looking at the link. Have you offered it to Brian in his thread on the exodus? This seems like it's something we should all be discussing. lfen
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lfen Member (Idle past 4707 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
Tom,
So are you agreeing with me that it is a poetic expression? lfen
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Have you read the Armana Letters?
If the Exodus and conquest of Canaan happened around 2500, how is it that a 1000 years later no one knows about it? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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lfen Member (Idle past 4707 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
Jar,
I wasn't supporting Aardsma. I was suggesting that if Phat is offering it as a defense of the exodus it would best be done where Brian and those discussing the exodus could bring as much scholarship to bear on it as possible. As it is it's sort of tucked away and off topic. lfen
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You're right. I was wrong. Mea Culpa.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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