The rise of faith schools

You don't seem to mind telling other people how to raise their children. It doesn't occur to you that they may be a better judge than you, does it? It doesn't occur to you that they have a great investment in the success of their children, and the brains to determine the best direction for achieving it. Obviously not, they need you and nanny government to tell them how to run their lives and best serve their children's future. They are "misguided" according to you and that is that. I find that to be the case with liberals in general.

It's not a nanny government. I have met home schooled kids who are supposed to be at a 3rd grade level who can BARELY READ! Now, maybe their is an argument that it's their parent's right to give them a horrible education... but is that fair to the child?In any case our society has decided that it helps everyone when every child has access to a quality publically financed education.I mean, where do we draw the line about allowing parents to determine what's best?Should parents be allowed to let their children die because they don't believe in blood transfusions?Should parents be allowed to lock their children in the basement for a few days as a disciplinary measure?Should children be forced to go without medical care because their parents decided to spend their money on alcohol and lottery tickets instead of medical insurance?Should parents be allowed to subject their children to malnourishment because they don't believe in eating most types of food? (this actually happened recently).Should parent's be allowed to beat their children for discipline? (I'm on the fence here, I don't think a light spanking ever hurt anyone... a belt is a different matter).I mean, we draw these arbitrary lines all the time. I don't think it's the nanny govt. Parents have the right to educate their own children as long as the kids are getting a similar level of education as public school kids.Whatever you want to believe about American public schools... I will say this. The vast majority of scientists, doctors, engineers, etc... all attended public schools.

& Should parents be allowed to effectively sign the death penalty on their children by refusing blood products?Not that the hospitals allow this, but that's what the parents are prepared to demand.Mark

Well, if anecdotal evidence means anything, I've met homeschooled kids, now in their teens, who are voracious readers and have been from an early age. I thought we were talking about the right to a RELIGIOUS education, but you are bringing in completely extraneous complaints. I am all in favor of the BEST POSSIBLE education for children. I am also in favor of RELIGIOUS education. It is not helping everyone if it dictates that Christians may not have Christian education for their children. Well, why would you think I'd be for anything less? You've been assuming an awful lot. I'm for Christian kids getting a BETTER education than the public school kids and from what I've seen in both homeschooling and Christian schools this is quite possible and in fact such alternatives are growing across the country. The public schools have been progressively deteriorating over the last few decades. That is why there has been such a growth in homeschooling and founding of Christian schools.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-06-2006 08:20 PM

Faith,I'm not sure we disagree all that much. Like you said, there are plenty of kids who go to religious schools or are home schooled and do fine. As long as they can demonstrate that they are receiving a quality education (through standardized testing or whatever) than I am fine with it. Of course this should not be paid for with tax money (which we may disagree on). I ALREADY have to support churches I don't go to or agree with because they don't pay property taxes.Public schools in decent areas are the best education available. Now, I will admit that the quality of public education has suffered in poor areas..... but the reasons for that are for another thread.

Interesting. You are SUPPORTING them? How about those who are homeschooling or sending their children to Christian schools who have to PAY taxes to support the public schools?

My views pretty much echo yours.Faith schools pretty much inevitably reinforce segregation and separation and I think that's a very bad idea.Tony Blair thinks they are a great idea though and has been supporting them ever since he became PM - I don't know what Gordon Brown thinks.I very much doubt any politician in the short to medium term is going to do anything to move away from faith schools being allowed and even promoted.

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I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then

I have to pay for every church in my town. My property taxes are higher because those churches don't pay property taxes.I have to pay to support churches I don't agree with and you have to pay to support public schools you don't agree with.That's the way democracy works. I have to pay for corrupt corporate welfare and ridiculous no-bid contracts that I believe are immoral... is that any more or less fair?If people don't want to send their kids to public school..... fine.... they still have to pay their taxes.I don't agree with the drug war (I think it's evil and immoral) but I still have to pay taxes that go to support it.

Have you calculated the amount the churches add to your property taxes? How many there are and how much they would pay and factored it all in to the total and figured your percentage from that?But those who don't use the public schools pay taxes at the exact same rate those who do use them pay.abe: By the way, what do you think of the opinion of some of the American founders that Christianity should be encouraged as it is good for the country in general?This message has been edited by Faith, 04-06-2006 08:53 PM

Faith, I'll go with Thomas Jefferson and we all know what he though about organized religion.Think about it this way... if you let the govt. start funding your churches and schools then they are going to start wanting to have a say in what is taught there. Separation of church and state is there to protect both sides. I know you don't want the govt. telling religious schools what they have to teach children (which everyone knows would happen if they started funding them).There are A LOT of government programs that everyone pays for and very few people use. Why are you picking on education in particular?Should someone who never flies have to pay for an airline bailout?Your argument about tax rates is a red herring at best.

You are the one who brought up the tax issue by complaining about having to pay more property taxes because churches don't have to. It occurred to me to ask if you've calculated this big addition to your bill. I gather you haven't.Yes I really do not want government funding of Christian schools for the reason you gave. I do believe a little tax relief would be in order, however.Thomas Jefferson was only one of a couple hundred if you count all those of the core group who actively contributed to the founding of the nation. And even he approved the effect of Christianity on the citizenry as I recall.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-06-2006 09:12 PM

they thought if people needed religion to be happy then yes it is good, but they also considered religion to be personal only, after all they just came from a place where the christian church held the goverment

so does that mean you wouldn't have a problem if jewish or muslim ran schools got a tax relief?
or heck pagan?)(if there is such a thing) no he really didn't, in fact i think less than 20% of people in the us at the time were church goers

I wonder if you could find a quote to this effect? Well, I know you can't. They considered it to have an important MORAL influence on the nation. They said nothing about its being "needed" to make people "happy."This message has been edited by Faith, 04-06-2006 09:25 PM

ok if this has to be dueling quotes then you find a qoute stating they considered it to have a moral influence on the nation nice, you make me feel all warm and fuzzy when you sneer like that