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Author Topic:   What's Best Reconciliation of Gen 1 and 2 You've Heard?
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 66 of 307 (238485)
08-30-2005 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by randman
08-30-2005 1:03 AM


What does Genesis REALLY say?
randman writes:
Genesis does not state the animals were created after Adam.
You didn't tell us where you got this quote:
quote:
"Now, the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and ...... He brought them to the man..."
What translation?
The KJV says:
quote:
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
The KJV doesn't say "had formed". It says "formed" - i.e. after Adam. Maybe somebody can tell us which is the better translation?
Genesis 1: 27 strongly suggests the order of Genesis 2 in the creation of Adam first.
Again, not according to the KJV:
quote:
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Look at the tense again: "have dominion over... every living thing that moveth upon the earth." Not "every living thing that I am going to create after you."
Notice also that in Genesis 1, there is no mention that man and woman were created separately, while in Genesis 2, the order is man, then animals, then woman.
In the KJV, at least, the orders are significantly different, unless you're desparate to apologize them into agreement.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by randman, posted 08-30-2005 1:03 AM randman has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 77 of 307 (254022)
10-22-2005 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by randman
10-18-2005 1:10 AM


Time line
randman writes:
One assumption is that only one historical time-line leads up to our present. My point is perhaps that is not the case.
The problem with your "voodoo time" hypothesis is that it isn't useful. It doesn't add any new information - it only subtracts. You only use it to try to explain away what we already know.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by randman, posted 10-18-2005 1:10 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by randman, posted 10-23-2005 12:53 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 79 of 307 (254115)
10-23-2005 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by randman
10-23-2005 12:53 AM


Re: Time line
randman writes:
...."what we already know", hey, just forget the facts, we know it already.
What the hell are you talking about?
"What we already know" is the facts.
I was just saying that your voodoo time hypothesis throws out the facts that you don't like. That's it's only purpose.
If you had any facts of your own, you could present them. Instead, all you ever present is creationist junk websites. Your only response to the actual facts is to make up mumbo-jumbo excuses to ignore them.
Now, do you have a reconcilliation of Genesis 1 and 2 that doesn't depend on throwing out the facts?

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by randman, posted 10-23-2005 12:53 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by randman, posted 12-07-2005 1:56 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 82 of 307 (266314)
12-07-2005 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by randman
12-07-2005 1:56 AM


Re: Time line
randman writes:
I don't see any contradictions at all between Genesis 1 and 2.
Then do you see any contradiction between Genesis 1 and Judges 17? Or Matthew 24? Because if relativity or quantum mechanics can unravel the past in any way you want, everything becomes pretty meaningless.
How do you know that Genesis didn't just "poof" into the Bible five minutes ago? How do you know that the idea of Genesis didn't just "poof" into your brain last week?
As I have said before, your "adjustable past" notion is useless because you can draw whatever conclusions you want. Therefore, your conclusions are equally useless.
There has to be some basis in reality. There has to be something "solid" or we just don't know anything. If you can "poof" away the contradictions between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, what prevents the whole Bible just "poofing" away?

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by randman, posted 12-07-2005 1:56 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by randman, posted 12-07-2005 2:49 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 84 of 307 (266381)
12-07-2005 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by randman
12-07-2005 2:49 AM


Re: Time line
randman writes:
Useless is not well-defined by you here.
"Useless" is defined in terms of the topic: a reconcilliation between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.
I don't care if you can build a magic quantum "poofing" machine. And I don't care if you can "poof" or "dispoof" evolution.
I am saying that your "poofistry" is useless for explaining the contradictions between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. They are supposedly describing the same events but they describe them in a different order.
Even if quantum mechanics can "poof" the past into a different past, how can it "poof" the same incident into two different histories?
Your argument makes a mockery of the entire study of history. Maybe in another "poof" the South won the Civil War. Maybe the Declaration of Independence was never written and the good ol' US of A is just a "poof" of our imaginations. Maybe Jesus died on the cross in one "poof" and was pardoned by Pilate in another simultaneous "poof". Where oh where will all the "poofing" end?
And even if Genesis 1 was one "poof" and Genesis 2 was a different "poof" of the same event, why did the author(s) of Genesis see two different "poofs"? If one author, why (and how) would he see two different "poofs"? If multiple authors, why would they see different "poofs"?
Do you still not see why I say your "poofology" produces more questions than answers?
Edited to add more "poofs".

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by randman, posted 12-07-2005 2:49 AM randman has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 204 of 307 (316994)
06-02-2006 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by arachnophilia
06-02-2006 6:37 AM


referring to "whisper", arachnophilia writes:
you can't read a simple story and answer basic questions of comprehensions, order, and storyline.
Remember Hyper evolution in the Bible? The ad hocery is beginning to sound very familiar.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by arachnophilia, posted 06-02-2006 6:37 AM arachnophilia has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 299 of 307 (318118)
06-05-2006 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by vitalprikalist
06-05-2006 1:16 PM


Re: Genesis 1,2
vitalprikalist writes:
... since God created the animals in front of Adam, satan couldn't come in and claim to have been the creator. That is why satan went after Eve first.
When did satan claim to be the creator?

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by vitalprikalist, posted 06-05-2006 1:16 PM vitalprikalist has not replied

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