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Author
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Topic: Old Laws Still Valid?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Still more off topic irrelevancies from John10:10
anastasia writes: I have never in my life heard such phantasmagorical lingo as this.... I'm afraid that's fairly standard fundie phantasmagory. 
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 248 by anastasia, posted 01-04-2007 5:25 PM | | anastasia has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Still more off topic irrelevancies from John10:10
I didn't say it made sense. 
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 252 by anastasia, posted 01-04-2007 5:55 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Still more off topic irrelevancies from John10:10
John 10:10 writes: If one can live a perfect life, then their thoughts will defend them on this judgment day. If one cannot live a perfect life, then their thoughts will accuse them on this judgment day. Even your own quote says nothing about a "perfect life".
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ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Still more off topic irrelevancies from John10:10
John 10:10 writes: Mt 5:48"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Context, me boy, context. Back up a few verses:
quote:
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
We are told to be perfect in the context of loving our neighbour. As I have been saying all along, Jesus told us to love our neighbour AS we love ourselves. That is the standard of perfection. God loves all of us equally. We are told to love all of us equally too. Are you ever going to address the topic? Are you ever going to explain why Jesus said that the whole of the law hangs on loving God and loving thy neighbour? Are you ever going to explain how eating shrimp effects my love for my neighbour?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Still more off topic irrelevancies from John10:10
John 10:10 writes: If you miss the New Covenant that is in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, then you miss it all, no matter how much to try to love your neighbor. What I am missing is any sign of any content whatsoever in your posts that addresses either my posts or the topic in general. You blather on about the "New Covenant" but you ignore the question of the topic: How does the New Covenant relate to the Old? Are the Old Covenant laws (like the prohibition on eating shellfish) still applicable or not? Just answer the question. If they Old Covenant laws are still applicable, how do they relate to the New Covenant? Just answer the question. I have shown what Jesus Himself said about the New Covenant: the whole of the law hangs on loving thy neighbour as thyself. If the Old Covenant laws are still valid, how do they hang on loving thy neighbour as thyself? Just answer the question.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Still more off topic irrelevancies from John10:10
John 10:10 writes: For those who have entered into the New Covenant relationship with Jesus that is in His blood.... The problem with that is that Jesus wasn't talking to "those who have entered into the New Covenant":
quote:
Mat 22:34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
He was talking to the Pharisees. The New Covenant is not germane to the issue. Jesus' interpretation of the Old Covenant was that "thou (Pharisee) shalt love thy neighbour as thyself". Notice that the lawyer didn't disagree with Him. Jesus' interpretation of the law was no real change from the Jewish interpretation of the law.
... the Old Covenant laws are wonderful for converting the soul (Psalms 19:7-14), but they are not binding. So, in what way is not eating shellfish "wonderful for converting the soul"? And how does not eating shellfish relate to loving thy neighbor?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Still more off topic irrelevancies from John10:10
John 10:10 writes: Yes, I perceive I must be talking to a Pharisee. They rejected Jesus' message just as you reject Jesus' message. You keep parroting the false accusation that I "reject" Jesus' message - but you are the one who has been ignoring Jesus' message in this thread. I have quoted several times what Jesus said about the law: that the whole of the law hangs on loving God and loving they neighbor as thyself. You don't seem to have anything to say about that.
For those who enter into the New Covenant relationship with Jesus, He gives a new commandment to us in John 13:34-35 As I said, Jesus' statement about the law was not for those in the New Covenant, it was for those in the Old Covenant. Loving thy neighbor as thyself is the common bond between the old and the new. You have agreed that some of the old laws are no longer "binding". Is that going to be the only substantial statement you make in this thread?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Still more off topic irrelevancies from John10:10
arachnophilia writes: If the Old Covenant laws are still valid, how do they hang on loving thy neighbour as thyself? Just answer the question. oo oo i got dibs if he doesn't know. Since John apparently has no interest in the thread topic, I (for one) would be interested in your answer.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Still more off topic irrelevancies from John10:10
John 10:10 writes: In order to love God, love your neighbor as you love yourself, and love others as Jesus loves us, you must start with John 3:3-7 & 16. Don't skip over verse 10:
quote:
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Jesus said that a "master of Israel", a Pharisee, should already know about being born again. Because, as I have said, being born again means starting your life again. It doesn't have the voodoo connotations that fundies try to put on it. Being "born again" doesn't mean being initiated into an exclusive club with your own decoder ring that only you can use to understand the Bible. It means starting from scratch, learning everything over again with a new attitude. The "New Covenant" isn't a secret society. It's a re-statement of the Old Covenant. Jesus made that clear when he spoke to the Pharisees about loving their neighbour. His explanation of the law was not just for the "special" John-Johns. It was for everybody.
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