Old Laws Still Valid?

I have a question...You said:And then you said: So, is it the trying that qualifies as doing, or just the doing?

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If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)

So who judges the thoughts and intents of the heart? How do we know when someone is trying, and when they are not?It's easy to put on a mask, no?

Thank you jar

So when you said: Does that mean you want to retract the other things you said?: These contradictions are disturbing jar.And when you said:How can you be a good Christian by doing unimportant things?You don't think Christ's work is important?Being raised christian and rejecting it does not make you a Christian. It makes you someone who rejects it.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

Why don't they just be honest? I mean why would we not believe what they say?

Right?Do you mean those... ...things you mentioned?But you just said...All of this is in the context of Christians doing the work of Christ, which is the right thing, even if only trying.Why is it that you get away with responding to my posts with And Ringo gets away with asking me questions which assume in them, that I am obsessed or Napoleonic in my delusional state?But if I say what I am about to say... and that is, that the only thing you needed to say was Blah, blah, blah, blah, because the rest of your post is just redundant and equivocal to Blah, blah, blah, blah, then why do I have to fear being threatened for insulting the intelligence of other posters?And then you threaten people for being off topic when it is you who have been engaged in this sideshow with John 10:10 for some time.Who, in the name of the chaotic, incoherent, and isolated hell you are destined for... do you think you are?Can I give you a hint?You're absolute!Edited by scottness, : retractionEdited by scottness, : No reason given.

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If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)

Of course... and realizing that we don't, and receiving the savior in good logical and intelligent honesty.It's the only good thing we can do... be honest and sensible.But it will get you in trouble, because liars rule the roost!Edited by scottness, : No reason given.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

What Jesus did was show that men had perverted the law, and made it all about outward, and religious nonsense. They twisted it into a religion whereby some men were more equal than others. When it is the law that was given to equalize men, by placing their filthy righteousness under the foot of Jesus. By reminding us the standard is so high, that only the coming savior could fulfill it and save mankind.And He told the Pharisees that the Sabbath was made for man's benefit, not for God's, because God is always working. And he explained that the heart of all the laws is what counts. The clear and present intention to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and strength. That honest striving to learn the truth, so that we can come to know Him. Then when we know Him, our works will follow naturally from our heart.He made it clear that doing is meaningless if it is done only for men to see.Would you like me to give the verses where He said these things, as well as the one's you use as evidence to support your assertion?I assume you do consider Jesus' testimony valid, since you sourced Him... right?

I think you've misunderstood the passage jar. Please allow me to put the picture together. Let me serve you...Matthew 5:17-20 As for Matthew 25 that you referenced, let me explain how this coheres with the words of Jesus in chapter 5. All it takes is a little thought, and the connection is clear as day. We must take all of his words into context. We do not make discoveries by eliminating resources that are complimentary, but by using all those that cohere. Do you notice it is the righteous who are the one's who do not acknowledge their own works for any value in saving them? Yet here, those on his left appeal to the good works they have done and are shocked.Then Jesus tells us how this connects to the Matthew 5. In otherwords, if our works are going to save us, they must be flawless. Right down to the smallest letter, and least stroke of the pen.That is why He came to fulfill the law. Because none of us could.But if you want to ask Him, 'when you did not do these things?', that is your perogative.I cannot say that you are a sinner. I don't know your heart like Jesus does. I can only admit that I am, and suggest that people consider for themselves that they may be headed for a dead end.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

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If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)

jar, you need to calm down.You've made a mistake. It happens! I do it all the time... daily even.Those laws are not totally invalid. The punishment and condemnation is invalid. The Pharisees protected themselves by doing all of these other laws. Jesus told them off, and pointed to the heart of the law. Don't you get it? The Ten Commandments are what is still valid.Stop throwing the baby out with the bath water. Don't be so black and white and absolute about it. The only thing absolute is the intent remember?That is what Jesus confirms....Listen to Him. He tells us what is important in regard to the law... or is chapter 25 of Matthew the only words of Jesus that are valid? You said:I completely agree!Edited by scottness, : No reason given.Edited by scottness, : clarity

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If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)

You're totally correct John 10:10And you are wise to let it go with this one. He's... difficult.Perhaps I will learn that myself some day.

I hope they do! The topic is 'Old laws are still valid'.The topic is not what you think that means, or what I think that means. We have different interpretations of the matter.So stop playing the stupid Topic Card just because I see it differently.As you said, let the audience decide.

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If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)

If you start here, you'll be in for a treat regardless of where you you stand on the matter. This old thread is stil kickin'http://EvC Forum: Old Laws Still Valid? -->EvC Forum: Old Laws Still Valid?

jar writes:jar, I agree with you on the first half of your point. Now if you want to figure out why that statement is itself an absolute, but not in the material terms the Pharisees tried to couch it in, then all you have to do is read what you wrote. The last line is where the stumbling block is. As John10:10 said in his post: You are using an absolute with which to deny absolutes altogether. Don't you see what you said?You said (correctly): You see? The problem is that in order to tell someone that this is the right way, but that is the wrong way, you must infer an absolute by implying that this or that, is actually true, even if we do not believe in absolutes.No one ever said that we had to understand what we are talking about in order to be correct. And often we stumble over the capstone and do not even realize what tripped us.The absolute is implied, assumed, presupposed, and inferred because it is the rock by which we anchor our statement.jar writes:That is a contradiction jar, and therefore false. We cannot affirm a negative unless we are omniscient.For example, if I say, 'purple aliens with pink spots do not exist anywhere in the universe', I am very likely correct. But it is an absolute assertion that I cannot (simply cannot) affirm.Regarding the Law, your statement about Jesus, that He came to show by word and deed that Absolute Morality or Absolute Law do not exist fails three tests:1. Unaffirmability
2. Undeniabilty
3. Logical Consistency.In order for him to show what you imply, He would have to have said the exact opposite, 'I have come to abolish the law, not to fulfill it.'Truth (real law) must be logically coherent and not contradictory.You said:Quite the contrary! If Jesus really embodied the truth as He claimed, we would expect his words to be very exact.You said: Ah! So you do believe in the...lawof non-contradiction.We all do...Because it's common sense as you said. Because that is the intent and Spirit of the law. And that is what Jesus fullfilled right down to the last letter. Not in terms of man's rules which we can manipulate to confuse the issue, but in terms of God's truth and honesty.

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If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)

Anastasia said: Anastasia, thank you for making that distinction. That was severely lakcing in this discussion.Jesus came to fulfill the Moral Law. And He did not have to play the role of the Levitical preist in the way that a human priest would cleanse himself, because He was already sinless and was also the sacrifice to boot.I think it is clear that the Law jesus came to fulfill was the Moral Law.