|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,915 Year: 4,172/9,624 Month: 1,043/974 Week: 2/368 Day: 2/11 Hour: 1/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Faith and belief | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Did I miss a message from you? To what question do you refer?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
StrawberryPatchBug Junior Member (Idle past 5994 days) Posts: 13 Joined: |
Messages 61 and 90.
I asked if you could outline the morals that you consider universal and that in your opinion apply to everyone and not just yourself.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
atrawberrypatchbug:
Messages 61 and 90. I asked if you could outline the morals that you consider universal and that in your opinion apply to everyone and not just yourself. message 61 was a reply to eighteendelta so I did not receive notification. http://EvC Forum: Faith and belief -->EvC Forum: Faith and belief No big deal... I'll answer the question. I remember someone asking that question along the line. I was just distracted with other things. The universal moral is 'love thy neighbor as thy self'. I was making reference to the fact that if we believe that morality is relative (we each have our own truths and create our own reality) then I cannot expect a Hitler or Stalin to respect human dignity. The fact is, we do expect others to respect the rights of others. It is universal in human history. Of course there are monsterous exceptions.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Rob writes: The universal moral is 'love thy neighbor as thy self'. I was making reference to the fact that if we believe that morality is relative (we each have our own truths and create our own reality) then I cannot expect a Hitler or Stalin to respect human dignity. The question isn't so much, "What would Hitler or Stalin do?" It's more like, "What would you do if Hitler or Stalin was your neighbour?" Would you help them with their "home improvement" projects? "Universal" morality poses a problem when you have to choose between neighbours. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels ------------- Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Ringo:
It's more like, "What would you do if Hitler or Stalin was your neighbour?" Would you help them with their "home improvement" projects? I see you know 'Ed Zachary'. Ringo: "Universal" morality poses a problem when you have to choose between neighbours. Not really... you choose to impose yourself on the neighbors who insist on killing you. Not because you want to... but because they do. Nothing moral about allowing Hitlers and Stalins to obliterate you or your neighbors. In fact, it would be immoral.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Rob writes: I see you know 'Ed Zachary'. Nope. Never heard of him.
quote: Not really... you choose to impose yourself on the neighbors who insist on killing you. Not because you want to... but because they do. That only applies to extreme situations. When you have two neighbours whose plans, etc. are harmless but mutually exclusive, which one do you choose? (If two neighbours are roofing their houses on the same weekend, who do you help?) There's just no escaping the relative nature of all decisions. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels ------------- Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Rob said to Ringo:
I see you know 'Ed Zachary'. to which Ringo replied:
quote: Then you might want to know that Rob is making a reference to Urban slang a very poor taste joke at that.
Urban Dictionary writes:
Ed Zachary Disease is when your face looks exactly like your ass, meaning you are extremely ugly. "Ed Zachary Disease is when your face rook Ed Zachary rike your ass." - Dr. Chang of China Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Ringo: There's just no escaping the relative nature of all decisions. An observation Rob was kind enough to illustrate.
Rob: Ed Zachary Given a choice between making or not making a joke guaranteed to cast its teller in a bad light, Rob chose self-sabotage. Not everyone would choose this. Which just goes to show you the individual nature of all decisions. If obvious self-sabotage is a priority for you, as it seems to be for Rob, you will choose your actions on that basis, as Rob has. If self-sabotage is not something you value, you will choose your actions based on other things you regard as more important. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
dameeva: The spiritual age is upon us. I have experienced quite a few eras and there has been nothing like it before, causing much angst and confusion. We have to keep our eye on the ball and it is our potential as a human race that is emerging. This potential within us all manifests through faith and beliefs, of that I have no doubt. The most concentrated belief system is the one surrounding god. So will god manifest or are we messing it up with all the contraversy and disagreements?
Why worry? If the 'spiritual age is upon us' and God intends to 'manifest,' the 'controversy and disagreements' are either: 1. a short-term phenomenon, or2. a feature of the new age Either way, you can relax. Reality. It's what's for dinner. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
dameeva: Who said anything about obligation? It is the NATURE of change. It is the nature of reality to conform to your beliefs?
How else do you think we got into this mess? Why do you call it a mess? Because it does not conform to your beliefs? Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pelican Member (Idle past 5016 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
Reality is what we are conscious of.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
anglagard Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
dameeva writes: Reality is what we are conscious of. So who constitutes "we." Is it the royal "we" in which you are speaking on behalf of your 'subjects'? Has it occurred to you that someone else's perceptions of reality, even just based upon different sensory inputs and interpretations, and therefore anyone else's reality, may be different than yours? Does the 'wild child' speak the king's English? Reality appears to me to be rather democratic in nature, it is by agreement. If you would like to meet some people who disagree with 'reality,' the town I live in has a state mental hospital where you can hear and consider alternative versions. Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pelican Member (Idle past 5016 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
The mess I refer to is humanities' inhumanity to humanity, the suffering, the wars, the cruelty, the apathy, the despair, the judgements, the exclusions, the inequality. Need I go on?
All of this is directly connected to our belief systems and faith in those belief systems. Do you believe that we have got it right and to leave the rest to providence? Don't you think that it is possible that 'life' is in our hands, and every single one of us adults are collectively responsible for the all of it? Metaphorically speaking, whether burying one's head in the sand or putting one's head in the clouds, it is still avoiding reality. Avoidance of the inhumanity is like a damn. It will fill up and overflow. It is already. Have you looked at the history books lately? A lot of things have changed for the better but at a cost. Some things have gotten steadily worse. The fear and the terror, rife in the world, has never been so great. This is the legacy we are giving our children. Are we going to make an effect on the world or is the world going to make an effect on us? Change or be changed or try to prevent change. Those are the choices. Edited by dameeva, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
anglagard Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
dameeva writes: Have you looked at the history books lately? A lot of things have changed for the better but at a cost. Some things have gotten steadily worse. The fear and the terror, rife in the world, has never been so great. This is the legacy we are giving our children. Have you looked at the history books lately? "The fear and terror, rife in the world, has never been so great?" Since when? Greece? (like Sparta and Athens were lovey-dovey)Rome? (ever heard of Caligula, Nero, Domitian, or Caracalla, for a few?) Palestine? (remember all those OT genocides?) How about those nice middle ages in Europe? embrace the lord as a serf, tolerate the plague, burn the witch, play fun games with the infidel. Not to mention that advanced scientific, medical, and agricultural technology that resulted in one chance in two to die before age five. But why limit this observation to the 'western world?' I wonder if Celts, some Western Hemisphere Indians, or even Carthaginians, may have found the practice of human sacrifice a bit disturbing, particularly if one was on the receiving end. {ABE} Beyond direct human sacrifice, one must consider the fear and suffering that involved indigenous populations in the process of colonization, be it the mass extermination of the American Indian or Australian Aborigine through acts of violence or incidental disease, or the death of between 20 and 100 million Africans as a result of only the 'modern' slave trade. The combination of all three factors as recently as the 1880's resulted in the death of 5 million Africans in the Congo, half the population, a figure one million shy of the holocaust. The victims had a legitimate fear of terror far beyond what any modern person could even begin to conceive.{/ABE} Of course all this "fear and terror, rife in the world" in the past, when so many starved to death, such as in China at the end of the Ming (among other times), or in Europe at the fall of the Western Roman Empire, or due to the plague, actually reduced the total population of the world, had no emotional effect upon the people involved. So what is the argument? That we suffer more because we have radio, TV, the internet and therefore are more aware? Or is the argument that people in the past somehow suffered less because they were somehow less human? I'm sorry, IMHO your post indicates a complete lack of both relative empathy and even the most remote knowledge of world history. Edited by anglagard, : No reason given. Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
All I knew is that 'Ed Zachary' was slang for 'exactly. I didn't know anything about hints at ungliness. Was just trying to lighten it up...
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024