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Author Topic:   Why so friggin' confident?
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 7 of 413 (493538)
01-09-2009 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Reality Man
01-05-2009 7:40 PM


I admit, I never read the Bible, but I listen to a lot of discussions and stuff, enough to the point that I can think in terms of "Black Boxes" a programmers' term for a functional object that receives input and ejects output, and of which the precise workings of that "black box" is not important to the users.
Incredible!!! You say you never read the Bible, but you want to have a discussion about faith and belief with those who do.
Let me ask you one question. Why should those who have faith in the God of the Bible waste our time reasoning with someone who won't take the time to read the most read book ever printed?
If you aren't asking the right questions, you aren't ready for the right answers, or will even agree that there are right questions and right answers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Reality Man, posted 01-05-2009 7:40 PM Reality Man has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by NosyNed, posted 01-09-2009 10:35 AM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 12 by lyx2no, posted 01-09-2009 12:58 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 20 by Rahvin, posted 01-09-2009 2:33 PM John 10:10 has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 9 of 413 (493546)
01-09-2009 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by NosyNed
01-09-2009 10:35 AM


Re:
Sooooo amusing. This is EXACTLY the issue with near enough to 100 % of the creationists who drop in here arguing against evolution.
If we are expected to engage those maybe you should go to the trouble of engaging this guy (though I agree with your feelings on this).
This section of the EvC forum has nothing to do with evolution. It's the place where people of faith and belief in the God of the Bible can share with those who have no faith and belief in the God of the Bible.
But the starting place is that someone should at least read the Bible before entering into dialogue about the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by NosyNed, posted 01-09-2009 10:35 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by cavediver, posted 01-09-2009 11:30 AM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 11 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-09-2009 12:12 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 18 by NosyNed, posted 01-09-2009 1:52 PM John 10:10 has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 13 of 413 (493554)
01-09-2009 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by cavediver
01-09-2009 11:30 AM


Re:
And although he mentions the Bible, he's obviously looking at more than just Christianity. Do you expect him to have read EVERY single religious text before he can ask questions regarding "faith"???
No, I don't. But he said he had NEVER read the Bible at all, only "listened to lots of discussions and stuff."
Maybe that's the way many here at the EvC forum do things, but I read for myself what a book says rather than just listen what others have to say about the book. I certainly don't discuss Bible truth with those who won't even read the Bible.
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by cavediver, posted 01-09-2009 11:30 AM cavediver has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 14 of 413 (493556)
01-09-2009 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by lyx2no
01-09-2009 12:58 PM


Re: Because
And please don't give me a handful of Bible quotes to answer the question unless you can show extra-biblically that they aren't the devils tricks.
C.S Lewis said this about devils:
"There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight."
The truth is that real devils exist, and to be free from their influences we are to resist them and submit ourselves to the God of the Bible.
Blessings
Edited by John 10:10, : added additional CS Lewis quote

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by lyx2no, posted 01-09-2009 12:58 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Huntard, posted 01-09-2009 1:22 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 16 by lyx2no, posted 01-09-2009 1:26 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 17 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-09-2009 1:31 PM John 10:10 has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 21 of 413 (493576)
01-09-2009 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Huntard
01-09-2009 1:22 PM


Re: Because
Of course, you have no evidence for this statement. It could be that you have to place your faith in Mohammed or Thor or whatever other deity. Or it could be that devils don't exist at all.
Now you are on to something! C.S. Lewis went on to say this about devils:
They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.
Belief in God is a reality that comes from believing that He exists and that He rewards those that dilligently seek Him.
Blessings
Edited by John 10:10, : added sentence

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 Message 15 by Huntard, posted 01-09-2009 1:22 PM Huntard has replied

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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 23 of 413 (493578)
01-09-2009 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by lyx2no
01-09-2009 1:26 PM


Re: Nebulous
This doesn't address how you know Genesis is correct and Kojoki is not?
Mind you, the texts are not at issue; the devil is not at issue; the issue is: how do you know you are right.
I beg to differ with you. The texts are the issue, as Jesus declared in John 5,
39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have (eternal) life."
Those who come to Jesus do find that He is the giver of eternal life.
So you don't have to know if I'm right.
Only I have to know that Jesus is right.
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by lyx2no, posted 01-09-2009 1:26 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by lyx2no, posted 01-09-2009 4:37 PM John 10:10 has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 25 of 413 (493582)
01-09-2009 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by DevilsAdvocate
01-09-2009 1:31 PM


Re: Because
But intelligent men can be wrong. Even Albert Einstein was initially wrong about the Steady State Theory of the Universe.
You are right about that. Even unintelligent men can be wrong.
Einstein's main problem in believing in the God who desires to be personal was that he couldn't understand how atoms sometimes fissioned into different parts. "God doesn't throw dice" he replied.
The God of the Bible reveals and manifests Himself to those who honor Jesus as Lord. Do I have to prove this to you? No, I don't. I only have to prove it to myself.
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-09-2009 1:31 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-10-2009 9:24 AM John 10:10 has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 27 of 413 (493585)
01-09-2009 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by NosyNed
01-09-2009 1:52 PM


Re:
Did you really totally miss the point of my post? I didn't say that this topic was anything to do with evolution.
Here's your quote:
Sooooo amusing. This is EXACTLY the issue with near enough to 100 % of the creationists who drop in here arguing against evolution.
Did you miss the point of my post?
We who have faith in the God of the Bible come to this forum section to share with those who do not have faith in the God of the Bible, not to argue against evolution which we could do in other forum sections.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by NosyNed, posted 01-09-2009 1:52 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by kuresu, posted 01-12-2009 2:22 PM John 10:10 has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 29 of 413 (493591)
01-09-2009 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Rahvin
01-09-2009 2:33 PM


Why don't you actually address the topic of the thread? Do you feel confident in your religious beliefs? If so, why? Are ancient writings collected in an old book sufficient to grant you your faith with enough confidence to tell scientists backed with objective data, "you are wrong because God says so?" Is there more to it than that? Why do you have faith in your particular religion (I presume Christianity by your posts and username), but not in any other religion? Why have faith (defined as a belief not based on proof) at all? Surely you have a reason (and an appeal to "salvation" or "fear of hell" would be irrelevant, because those are based on the same faith).
Why do I have faith in the God of the Bible? Here goes. When I read the Bible, it told the story of how God created man, how man sinned, how God pursued man, first through a man, then through his family, then through the nation of Israel, and in the fulness of time God sent forth His Son to save man from his sins. This Messiah's coming was prophesied many many times in the OT Scriptures, and was fulfilled many many times in the Person of Jesus Christ as revealed in the NT Scriptures. This Jesus died on a cross for our sins and was resurrected 3 days later, and ascended into heaven 40 days after His resurrection. Just before Jesus left, He told His followers to wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Spirit's coming. 10 days later Pentecost became a living reality for the 120 in the upper room as recorded in Acts 2, and for the 3000 who received the words of Peter in Acts 2:38-39;
"Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."
You can deny that these events ever happened if you wish, or ask me to provide proof infinitum that it's true. But for me it's too late to disbelieve. I am one who has believed the words of Jesus, believed the words of Peter, and have received God's promises - the forgiveness of my sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit, just as is recorded in Acts 1&2 which happened to the first followers of the Lord Jesus Christ.
This is why I believe and why I cannot "not believe."
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Rahvin, posted 01-09-2009 2:33 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Blue Jay, posted 01-09-2009 4:55 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 32 by Rahvin, posted 01-09-2009 5:40 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 41 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-10-2009 11:36 AM John 10:10 has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 39 of 413 (493717)
01-10-2009 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by lyx2no
01-09-2009 4:37 PM


Re: You're Becoming Tedious ” Again.
So you don't have to know if I'm right. Only I have to know that Jesus is right.
And if you don't want to share it, why are you posting on this thread: Couldn't find a mind your own business thread?
You must have missed post # 29.
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by lyx2no, posted 01-09-2009 4:37 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by lyx2no, posted 01-10-2009 5:42 PM John 10:10 has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 42 of 413 (493723)
01-10-2009 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Blue Jay
01-09-2009 4:55 PM


John, your post consisted of a summary of the Bible story and "I believe in it."
How does this answer the question of why you believe it?
Unbevievers just don't get the truth of what happened on Calvary's cross, what happened in Acts 1&2, what happened in Acts 2:38, and what has happened for 2000 years when repentant sinners believe in the truth of Acts 2:38.
The proof is in the pudding - the fact that repentant sinners know that their sins are forgiven, and that they have received the gift of God's Spirit whom God the Father gives to those who honor Jesus as Lord.
Acts 2:39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Blue Jay, posted 01-09-2009 4:55 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-10-2009 11:44 AM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 121 by Blue Jay, posted 01-12-2009 3:53 PM John 10:10 has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 44 of 413 (493726)
01-10-2009 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Rahvin
01-09-2009 5:40 PM


I, too, once believed in the Christian faith. I accepted Jesus into my heart, I believed that I had received forgiveness for my sins through the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus Christ, etc. And yet I no longer believe. Do you consider it impossible to re-evaluate one's personal beliefs? If so, why? Is this unique to Christianity? If so, why was I able to do so?
Without sitting down with you and spending hours discussing your life and family background, your attempt to believe in the Christian faith, ect, it's not possible to answer your question.
Paul had a similar encounter with some so-called disciples in Acts 19, and Paul asked them this one question in Acts 19:2,
"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
If not, this could be the reason why you turned away from the Christian faith. Read the rest of what happened to these men in Acts 19:3-7.
Blessings

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Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-10-2009 12:19 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 51 by RAZD, posted 01-10-2009 12:38 PM John 10:10 has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 45 of 413 (493727)
01-10-2009 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by DevilsAdvocate
01-10-2009 11:36 AM


To summarize and make it short. You believe it is true because you want it to be true irregardless of any evidence for or against it being true. That is what most non-religious people (myself included) would take of your statements of faith.
Your summary, not mine.
My summary is simply this:
When I believed in Jesus and was baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of my sins, I RECEICED THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, whom Jesus said would be given to His children (John 14:16-17).
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-10-2009 11:36 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 46 of 413 (493728)
01-10-2009 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by DevilsAdvocate
01-10-2009 11:44 AM


Again no shred of evidence. Just unsubstantiated assertions.
The evidence of what happened to the 120 in Acts 2:1-4 was enough proof to convince 3000 souls (Acts 2:41) to believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
This may not be proof to you, but it is valid proof that has been given for 2000 years to the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 2:47 And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.
Blessings
Edited by John 10:10, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-10-2009 11:44 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-10-2009 12:23 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 50 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-10-2009 12:31 PM John 10:10 has replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3025 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 57 of 413 (493787)
01-10-2009 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by DevilsAdvocate
01-10-2009 12:19 PM


"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
If not, this could be the reason why you turned away from the Christian faith. Read the rest of what happened to these men in Acts 19:3-7.
Sounds like your a "once save, always saved" breed of Christian. This is just another attempt by Christians to seperate themselves from fall-aways by saying they were not true Christians in the first place. This is the common "not a true Scottsman" logical fallacy.
No, I just believe in the Scriptural salvation as explained by Jesus and by Peter. I have met a few Christians who started well, then turned away from the Lord. I have met many Christians who have "sometimes" doubted their salvation, yet persevered and remained faithful to the Lord. But I have not met any Christians who received the Scriptural salvation of Acts 19:1-7, and turned away from the Lord.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-10-2009 12:19 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

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