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Author Topic:   Why so friggin' confident?
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 61 of 413 (493795)
01-10-2009 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Reality Man
01-09-2009 3:41 AM


Re Faith
Hi Reality Man,
I like your style. You pop in and post an OP and get the EvC machine going and you disappear leaving us to fight it out.
Nevertheless I must get in on this subject.
Reality Man writes:
What is Faith? or what it is about faith that makes people so determined that what they believe in is as real as the keyboard I'm typing on.
How do I know you typed on a keyboard?
You may be using voice recognition as far as I know.
I am not going to try to speak for anyone other than myself in this response.
First question, "What is Faith"?
The answer to that is found in Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
It is simply something I believe.
As far as tangible evidence I can show you there is none.
Do I have evidence that has made my faith increase? Yes.
The biggest problem is most people have no idea whose faith we are talking about or how faith is obtained.
Until Jesus ascended faith was by sight. People saw Jesus and believed. Well we don't have that privilege today.
But we do have the Word of God.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
This scripture tells me that faith cometh by hearing the word of God.
The only way I know of explaining that is to tell what happened to me.
When I was 9 years and 11 months old I had read through the Bible one time and was in I Corinthians on my second time. But the Bible had never spoke to me.
The little country church down the road from my house was having a revival so I told Mom and Dad I was going to church as they never took me I had to catch a ride. That was no problem as the first car that came by stopped and picked me up.
The preacher read from the Bible and then he lit into a rage about everybody who died without receiving Christ as their personal savior was going to hell. Well there was something in my head telling me I needed to get saved but I said no thank you. Church dismissed and I went home.
I went to bed and went to sleep. But sometime during the night I woke up and these verses of scripture keep going through my head.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I realized God loved me.
His Son died for me.
I didn't have to be condemned to hell like that preacher said.
I claimed God's promise by putting my spirit in His hands and trusting Him to take care of everything.
At that moment God sent the Holy Spirit to seal my eternal spirit until the day of redemption.
I had no clue as to what faith was.
I only believed God could do what He said He could.
Now I understand a little more about faith.
I heard God's Word not just a bunch of words but God spoke to me through His Word.
Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
This tells me that when I heard the word and received God's offer He dealt me a measure of faith. In other words God provided the faith I have.
And guess what it is not even mine.
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
This verse tells me it is the faith of Jesus Christ that provides the righteousness of God to everyone that believes God.
There have been many events that have taken place in the past 60 years that confirm God still loves me even though I am not worthy of such love.
My faith has been increased over the years to the point I am very sure of what I believe.
I would be the happiest man on earth if it was not for the fact that 104 people die and go out into eternity every minute and most of them will spend eternity in the lake of fire.
I am so helpless to reach them with the good news that Jesus died and paid their debt and all they have to do is receive the pardon offered to everyone that believeth.
I can not tell everyone but I will tell anyone who will listen that is all I can do.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Reality Man, posted 01-09-2009 3:41 AM Reality Man has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 153 of 413 (494207)
01-14-2009 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Percy
01-13-2009 10:57 AM


Re Child like faith
Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
Whatever happened to Mark 10:15, having faith like a child to enter the kingdom of God?
Percy I would like to explain how I understand this child like faith to be. I use it as an example all the time.
I don't know if you have ever tossed a child into the air and caught them or not. But I have and they love it. I had one nephew that he just did not want me to quit.
I would put him down and he would come right back and put those little arms us in the air and say do it again.
He had total trust in me that I would catch him everytime I threw him into the air.
Never a thought entered his mind that I would not catch him.
That is the kind of faith it takes to get to heaven.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
This says man must believe that God Is.
This says man must trust God to do what he says He will do.
This is the only way to come to God.
Once a person has come to God in this manner God will give him all the faith and evidence he needs.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Percy, posted 01-13-2009 10:57 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Dawn Bertot, posted 01-15-2009 12:00 AM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 193 of 413 (494678)
01-17-2009 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by RAZD
01-17-2009 5:21 PM


Re: Possible way to view the problem: what is the "Black Box" {set} of beliefs
Hi RAZD,
RAZD writes:
I don't think it depends on who believes what rather it depends on the degree of faith one relies on, as opposed to the degree of evidence based knowledge that is tested against reality, particularly when reality based tested knowledge is discarded.
It does make a difference what you believe.
The problem here is nobody knows what faith is.
Everybody here is talking about faith as the trust I would have in my dog or my bank to keep my money safe. My wife not to poison my food, etc.
When it comes to faith in God it does not work that way.
When a man comes to God he must believe that God is.
And
That God will do what He says He will do.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
When talking about Biblical faith found in the Bible this is the only definition for faith.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
How does a person obtain faith?
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
The source of faith.
Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
bolding added
So man must hear the word. Be convicted by the Word.
When convicted by the Word, a man comes to God believing God.
God provide's all the faith a person needs.
He will provide all the evidence a person needs.
I can be very confident in what I believe because gave me all the faith and evidence I need to trust Him to do what He says He will do.
I know that there are very few that can understand what I am saying and how I can be that confident. That is OK we all make our decisions based on and for different reasons as onifre says "that is cool".
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by RAZD, posted 01-17-2009 5:21 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Brian, posted 01-17-2009 6:45 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 195 by RAZD, posted 01-17-2009 6:51 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 197 of 413 (494685)
01-17-2009 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Brian
01-17-2009 6:45 PM


Re: Possible way to view the problem: what is the "Black Box" {set} of beliefs
Hi Brian,
Brian writes:
What if someone hears the Word but is not convicted by the Word?
You are referring to audible sounds I presume.
If he hears it he will be convicted.
Example.
You are driving along a road and I am standing in an intersection you pull up and stop. I tell you that you need to go down the road to the next crossing as the bridge is out at the river on this road.
You say thank you and proceed on down the road and end up in the river.
You heard the noise I made trying to convey the message to you but you did not hear a word I said.
Had you heeded the message you would have heard the message.
God bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Brian, posted 01-17-2009 6:45 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Brian, posted 01-19-2009 2:22 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 227 of 413 (495136)
01-21-2009 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by Modulous
01-20-2009 4:13 PM


Re: Why I am not confident
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes:
Would you disbelieve me if I told you that my mother was a virgin when I was born?
Why would I disbelieve you?
Man has been practicing AI since 1784.
We have a man that has given birth to one child and is now pregnant again with a second child.
AI is a scientific fact and is practiced daily.
So what is the problem with a virgin having a child?
If we can do it, why should God not be the first one to use AI?
Can we do something that God can't do?
What I haven't figured out yet is how the first man's mom got pregnant, or who she was. You got any idea's?
Oh yea, I remember I believe God formed the first man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and he became a living soul. God then took a rib from the man and performed the first cloning process and made a woman. They then produced offspring.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Modulous, posted 01-20-2009 4:13 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 10:16 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 235 by Huntard, posted 01-21-2009 10:24 AM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 228 of 413 (495137)
01-21-2009 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Brian
01-21-2009 7:32 AM


Re: Sad existence
Hi Brian,
Brian writes:
What a sad sad existance John 10:10, truly heartbreaking to see so many lives just wasted living out this fantasy.
What do you call a sad existence?
I have believed in and trusted God to take care of me since I was 9 years and 11 months old.
I have never missed a meal that I did not choose to miss.
I have always had a bed to sleep in with a roof over it.
I have always had everything I needed and many of the things I wanted.
I have been privileged to build tall buildings.
I have been privileged to build hundreds of miles or roadway that is traveled everyday.
I have been privileged to build super interchanges where 2 interstate highways intersect.
I have been privileged to help build many churches and even to build a couple myself.
I have been privileged to visit several countries.
I have been privileged to be a member of one of God's churches that had a membership made up of people from 18 different countries for 13 years.
I have friends in hundreds of countries around the world.
I have a beautiful wife of 51 years 7 months.
I have a lovely group of God's children that I teach the Bible too.
I own my own home a van and a pickup.
I do not owe anybody in the world a penny.
I do not worry about tomorrow because I know who hold's tomorrow.
I have peace, joy, happiness and contentment. What more could a man want?
I am the happiest man alive.
I do owe God everything.
These are but a few of the things that I am blessed with.
So Brian what " is a damn shame" about my life that makes you not know "whether to laugh or cry"?
God Bless,
He sure has blessed me.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Brian, posted 01-21-2009 7:32 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Brian, posted 01-21-2009 8:21 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 232 of 413 (495145)
01-21-2009 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Brian
01-21-2009 8:21 AM


Re: Sad existence
Hi Brian,
Brian writes:
Although I would say that you are not quite are certifiable as John 10:10, you are still living out a self-deluding fantasy.
Tell me this, do you tell the kids at Bible class that it is a fact that Jesus rose from the dead or it is a belief? Do you tell them that God may or may not exist?
Martin Luther King had a dream. Most said he was deluded.
You say I am deluded and am living a fantasy.
Then tell me what is wrong with my fantasy.
What more could I desire out of existence in this world?
I have everything I could ever want.
Tell me what I am missing by living my fantasy.
Most of my children are in their mid 20's to mid 80's and are born again children of God.
So I don't have to teach them to believe in God or that Jesus rose from the dead.
I do teach them how God wants us to help each other and others.
I do teach them how God wants us to obey the laws of our country.
I do teach them how God wants us to be an example to the world.
I do teach them how we are to use our knowledge to make the world a better place to live.
I do teach them if you can't be a part of the solution don't be a part of the problem.
Maybe you could add a few things I should teach them.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Brian, posted 01-21-2009 8:21 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Brian, posted 01-21-2009 5:25 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 240 of 413 (495179)
01-21-2009 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Modulous
01-21-2009 10:16 AM


Re: Why I am not confident
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes:
Which wasn't the question I asked.
I thought sure you said in Message 219:
qs=ModulousWould you disbelieve me if I told you that my mother was a virgin when I was born?[/qs]
To which my reply was:
ICANT writes:
Why would I disbelieve you?
Maybe I was mistaken. Or you were confused.
Modulous writes:
There are very very few virgin mothers that gave birth to sons in 1783 that survive to this day.
I have no idea how old you are so why would you jump to the conclusion that I was saying you were born in 1783.
I was only pointing out that AI has been scientifically possible since 1784.
Science has made great progress since then.
As I mentioned the man who was pregnant with the second child.
Modulous writes:
To answer yours, since you decided not to answer mine, you might choose not believe me - or at least retain a level skepticism based on the high degree of rarity of virgin mothers. Especially if I went on to tell you that this happened in 1783. There are very very few virgin mothers that gave birth to sons in 1783 that survive to this day.
You are probably right in assuming I would have problems if you told me your mother was a virgin when you was born in 1783.
But since it is scientifically possible today it was possible them. Whether man knew how to do it or not.
Modulous writes:
I did allude to this possibility in my post of course, by pointing out that
quote:
Human beings biologically require two human parents to create a child. Given the time and technology surrounding Jesus' birth this would almost universally imply sexual intercourse
I would agree that to make a human child it takes the sperm of a male human and the egg from a female human.
But we are not talking about a human child.
We are talking about a God child. Where the woman was the provider of the human body nothing else.
Modulous writes:
Now this is not necessarily true, but it is broadly true enough that under normal circumstances would cause someone to think that the story wasn't true. If Henry VIII claimed that he was born of a mating between a bull and a lioness,
Would that make him a lionbull?
Mod is it scientifically possible for a virgin to conceive and have a child and still remain a virgin after birth today?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 10:16 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 1:20 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 245 of 413 (495204)
01-21-2009 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Modulous
01-21-2009 1:20 PM


Re: So why are YOU confident?
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes:
Why?
At 226 you would qualify for the the oldest living human.
From what I can find the oldest living person is 113 year-old Tomoji Tanabe of Japan, born on 18 September 1895.
I hope that answers your why.
Modulous writes:
Right - but you are missing the overall point by only coming in the middle of a lengthy discussion. This can be quickly broken up into two points:
I read your post Message 151 the first day it was posted and did not care to play.
I am one of those who do not require physical evidence I can touch with my hands.
If you will read Message 61 you will see my take on the OP.
It should tell you the kind of faith I have.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 1:20 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 3:04 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 248 of 413 (495215)
01-21-2009 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Modulous
01-21-2009 3:04 PM


Re: So why are YOU confident?
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes:
'Why so friggin' confident?".
60 years of experience.
I will assume from your questions you did not read all of Message 61.
I will add just a little for your information.
My mom was an alcoholic.
My dad was a good man but he was not saved until I was 22 years old.
They never took me to church.
I began reading the Bible when I was 7 years old. There wasn't much to do on the farm in 1946 except in the spring and summer. That was the only book in the house and I loved to read. By the time I was 9 I was on my second time through the Bible.
Modulous writes:
I have had many tremendously moving religious experiences from a wide variety of different religions.
I wonder what one of those would be like as I never had one.
I heard a message preached on John 3:16, 17, and 18. Plus the preacher talked about the lake of fire from Revelation.
As a 9 year and 11 month old boy I believed those words, upon believing them I put my spirit in God's hands to take care of. He gave me all the faith I needed then and has supplied all I have needed from then until now.
The devil has tried my faith many times but he can not win.
Those trials have made my faith like tempered iron.
I am truly sorry for people who have never experienced God and His love, mercy, and kindness as I have.
I see so many that are hurting because of some religious experience when being a child of God is simply by accepting God at His word and then beginning on a journey to become totally like Christ.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 3:04 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Rahvin, posted 01-21-2009 4:19 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 251 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 4:42 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 252 by onifre, posted 01-21-2009 5:18 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 255 of 413 (495279)
01-21-2009 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Rahvin
01-21-2009 4:19 PM


Re: So why are YOU confident?
Hi Rahvin,
Thanks for the exchange I thought you weren't talking to me.
Rahvin writes:
So you read the Bible extensively as a child, and when you were 9 you simply put your trust in the book you'd been reading and your preacher.
Well actually no. If you had read Message 61 you would know better.
The preacher read 3 verses of scripture John 3:16, 17, and 18.
After going home and going to sleep I woke up and these 3 verses kept going through my head.
I realized God loved me.
I realized Jesus died for me.
I didn't have to be condemned to hell like that preacher said.
And verse 18 which said I was condemned already.
It also said, "He that believeth is not condemned".
I claimed God's promise by putting my spirit in His hands and trusting Him to take care of everything.
At that moment God sent the Holy Spirit to seal my eternal spirit until the day of redemption.
I had no clue as to what faith was.
I only believed God could do what He said He would.
Rahvin writes:
Why did you trust the Bible and the preacher?
But I did not trust the Bible or the preacher.
I was alone in my bed. Nobody in the room but me and the words going through my mind.
I heard those three verses for the first time as they went through my mind. I simply believed God.
Rahvin writes:
Did you just accept them unquestioningly
You of all people should know better than to ask me did I or do I accept anything without asking questions.
And no the Bible is not the only book I read. I had a 1 hr and 45 minute bus ride to school every day. It was usually the same back home but sometimes we didn't have to take 1 kid home and that made it 10 minutes less. So I read a book a day. Coming home and going back the next morning.
Rahvin writes:
You mention being challenged by the devil, but you didn't really answer the question of whether you had questioned your beliefs or not.
I have never questioned God's love for me.
I have never questioned Jesus buying me back out of salavery.
I have never questioned my decision as a 9 year and 11 month old boy to put my spirit in God's hands. My eternal destiny.
I have never questioned the fact the Holy Spirit came into my life and sealed my spirit until the day of redemption.
I have never feared death from that time until now even when looking up a gun barrel.
I have never questioned my Genesis explanation that I first presented at a prayer meeting on a Wednesday night when I was 10 years old. Even though nobody else believes it.
Rahvin writes:
Did you ever question them? meaning, did you ever ask yourself why you believe what you believe and whether your beliefs match to reality?
Other than those above everything has been questioned.
The reason I believe what I do is because the Holy Spirit leads me in all truth. I do get impatient and run ahead of Him sometimes and when I do I mess up. But if I need an answer concerning God's Word and ask for the knowledge of it He will supply that knowledge in His own time. Not when I demand it.
I do not see any problems between my beliefs and reality.
Rahvin writes:
You mention "experiencing God's love and mercy,"
You experience God's love when He puts the full free pardon in your possession at the moment you put your spirit in His keeping.
You experience His mercy every day as you are continually sheltered in His mercy.
Rahvin writes:
How do you know you aren't delusional?
Well since my life has been something out of a fairy tail because it could not have been better. If I am delusional please don't wake me up.
Rahvin writes:
Are you confident that your beliefs are accurate, and not based on human error or inaccurate cultural traditions? If so, why?
The things I mentioned above that I do not question are accurate.
Cultural traditions. Lets see I was raised on a farm. When I was four it became my job to wash all the dishes for my Grandmother who had me from the time I was 2. At 5 I acquired the job of feeding the chickens plus the dishes. When I was 6 and going to school I acquired another job of shelling 3 bushels of corn every Saturday
morning. When I was 7 I was retired from all those jobs and began to work in the field with my grandfather, dad, and my 2 uncles. Farming 180 acres with mules and horses is a full time job. We did go to church once every 3 months as that was the only time the preacher was there. All I remember about those days was all the food on the table. Especially the sweets. By the time I was 9 I was contracting cropping tobacco 6 weeks each year. Normal pay was $3 per day but I could make $6 or $9 on contract for the amount of work done in a day.
So I guess those inaccurate cultural traditions could have fouled me up a bit, but I doubt it.
Why do I believe? Because I have a peace that passes all understanding.
That peace is given to me by the indwelling Holy Spirit of God.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Rahvin, posted 01-21-2009 4:19 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Rahvin, posted 01-22-2009 1:00 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 256 of 413 (495295)
01-21-2009 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Modulous
01-21-2009 4:42 PM


Re: confident because you have believed for long enough?
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes:
That doesn't really seem to be an answer to the question. Unless you are trying to tell me you endorse the Concorde Fallacy?
Let's see if you needed a carpenter and you called me. I told you I was a master carpenter with 40 years of experience. Would you use the same argument?
Modulous writes:
Great. But why are you so friggin' confident? Are you trying to tell me that because you got into it when you were highly suggestible, and because you have believed that suggestion for sixty years - you have to be confident otherwise the decades of believing will seem very foolish to you? Or something else?
I think my post to Rahvin should answer this. Message 255
Modulous writes:
Right so you started believing something and part of that belief was that you had put your spirit in God's hands and that he gave you faith and given you all you need etc Why are so confident that this is in fact what happened?
Because God sent the Holy Spirit as a surety bond to guarantee the deal.
Modulous writes:
So occasionally you have doubted but you have managed to suppress those doubts? Why are so confident that it was the devil and not the way I describe it?
Why would you think the devil trying my faith produced doubt. I have never doubted the faith God gave me.
I have questioned many things.
There are some things I have never questioned.
Well God doesn't try one's faith as He is the one who provides it.
You may try my patience but not my faith. That only leaves the devil.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 4:42 PM Modulous has replied

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 Message 262 by Modulous, posted 01-22-2009 6:45 AM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 257 of 413 (495303)
01-22-2009 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by onifre
01-21-2009 5:18 PM


Re: So why are YOU confident?
Hi oni,
onifre writes:
Do you still believe in Santa? Easter bunny? Unicorns and faries? That He-Man is a real dude? That a cow actually jumped over the moon?
Never believed in any of those.
onifre writes:
You say you only had 1 book to read.
I said the Bible was the only book in the house.
I did go to school.
We did have a library.
I did check out a book a day.
onifre writes:
You had a limited exposure to the facts about reality.
Yea tell me about my reality I lived.
onifre writes:
What you are describing is textbook indoctrination.
Well actually it was only 3 verses, not a whole book.
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
But who was the facilitator of this indoctrination?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by onifre, posted 01-21-2009 5:18 PM onifre has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 258 of 413 (495319)
01-22-2009 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Brian
01-21-2009 5:25 PM


Re: Sad existence
Hi Brian,
Brian writes:
I believe God formed the first man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and he became a living soul. God then took a rib from the man and performed the first cloning process and made a woman. They then produced offspring.
is a folk tale that is full of contradictions and logical errors.
Should I replace it with.
Well folks I want to inform you that we are here this morning. Because somehow someway life appeared on planet earth. Now don't ask where it come from or why it just did.
That one life form or many life forms began to evolve and over billions of years you and I and all living things are the result of that process.
Brian writes:
I believed all sorts of things were real when I was nealry ten years old, but you do eventually need to grow up and realise that there is no Santa Claus, there are no fairies at the bottom of the garden, and there is no God.
Some assertion's there.
I never believed in Santa Claus.
I never believed in fairies.
So I will take your word for their non existence.
But "there is no God".
I need evidence for the assertion that "there is no God".
If you can not provide evidence a retraction will do.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Brian, posted 01-21-2009 5:25 PM Brian has replied

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 Message 260 by Brian, posted 01-22-2009 4:40 AM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 277 of 413 (495493)
01-23-2009 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Rahvin
01-22-2009 1:00 PM


Re: So why are YOU confident?
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes:
As a child, I never questioned any of these things. My parents and my entire community were tellign me that what I was hearing was true.
But as a child I never heard those things. I never had a community telling me anything.
Nobody asked me to go to Church.
Nobody made me go to Church.
And going 1 time a month and having a big feast don't say much.
Everybody was too busy trying to scratch out a living on their farms.
Everybody worked from daylight until dark.
Remember we are talking about the time right after the war was over I started school in 1945.
Rahvin writes:
If you've never questioned them, never tested them, how do you know they're accurate?
You talked about feelings and emotions. Most people I talk to talk about those.
But I had no feelings.
I had no emotions.
I simply thought about the words of John 3:16, 17, and 18.
I made a decision to accept the offer those words made to me.
Upon accepting that offer of a full free pardon, I received the Holy Spirit and He sealed my spirit until the day of redemption.
At that moment God gave me the faith I needed to trust Him.
I have never questioned my decision.
I know what I did.
I know what God promises.
I know God exists.
I know the question that follows that statement also.
How do I know He exists.
Because I met Him, therefore I have no reason to doubt Him.
I am sorry but that is the best I can do as I can not find the words to express to you how I know God IS.
Let me try this.
In one of our discussions several months ago you got pretty mad at me because I kept asking "where the universe at T=0 came from"? You said, "the Universe simply exists".
I was never satisfied with that answer as you will probably never be satisfied with my answer concerning God.
How do I know God exists and can do what He said He will do?
Because God Is.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Rahvin, posted 01-22-2009 1:00 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Modulous, posted 01-23-2009 3:20 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 286 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-23-2009 12:04 PM ICANT has replied

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