Evangelical Indoctrination of Children

Perhaps you can start to understand my own present dilemma. My wife and two boys still attend my former church - a charismatic evangelical Hillsong-style church. The Sunday-school is thorough and effective in producing new generations of Bible-believing creationist Christians. My eldest made the comment the other week that he didn't think that my youngest was actually a Christian yet. I seriously felt ill on hearing this - on the us and them mentality already hard at work in an eight-year-old! I could write pages on this if I had the time, but just thought I'd mention that this is all weighing very heavily on my mind at the moment...

Huh? You mean discounting the 600 in my wife's church?

ochaye, let's not beat around the bush - you are making yourself look like a complete twat. You are the one claiming that these various Christians mentioned are not in fact Christian. You have claimed that there is no such thing as an evangelical creationist. Well, I know personally several hundred who are, including senior members of the UK Evangelical Alliance. If you want to make these absurd claims it is up to you to provide your rationale, not for us to guess.Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

Yes, I do.Now, please back up your assertion that there are no creationist evangelicals, or withdraw it. Yes, they are part of the worldwide Christian faith, and are known as Christians. What has this to do with your claim that there are no creationist evangelicals. Evangelicals are, for the main, few and far between in the Catholic church. Exactly. They shouldn't. *YOU* should be providing your reasons.ABE: I should add that during my 26 year stint as an evangelical (non-creationist) Christian, I would make the claim that most Catholics are not Christian, for the usual evangelical reasons...Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

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It has been admitted that most who call themselves Christians tell lies. So they cannot be Christians. Surely it takes very little brain to work out that much.
  —ochaye

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And given your idocy regarding a lack of creationist evangelicals, I'm assuming you fall into this group who tells lies, and hence cannot be Christian? Or are you just confused?

You have claimed that there is no such thing as an evangelical creationist.Please back up this claim, or retract it.

So you are also claiming that most of the readership will agree with you that there are no creationist evangelicals? What would you call the congregation of, say, Hillsong? Or, say, Vineyard. Or most Southern Baptists I have ever met?

Pentecostalism fringe??? This is the Wiki entry for the Assemblies of God, a *SUBSET* of Pentecostals:

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The World Assemblies of God Fellowship or Assemblies of God (AG) is the world's largest Pentecostal Christian denomination. With over 300,000 churches and outstations in over 110 countries and approximately 57 to 60 million adherents worldwide, it is the fourth largest international body of Christians.

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I have to say that I have only rarely come across such behaviour. There are ceratinly disagreements between charismatic and non-charismatic, prosperity vs non-prosperity, and some may even accuse extreme groups of being non-Christian (Benny Hinn and cronies come to mind) - BUT this is rare. Ochaye's opinion amusingly places him within a subset generally regarded as sufficiently exclusivist as for his own Christianity to be questioned

Still verbose in your replies, I notice.So Ochaye, the "christian", claims that there are no creationist evangelicals, and that Pentecostals are a fringe group Have you met Smooth Operator? You and he would have much blinkeredness in common...

My internet perspective is primarily through EvC and related sites (on both sides) - and based purely on that, I would have to strongly agree with you. But my wider experience dwarfs that perspective. Evangelicals play together very well in the real world, and to suggest that one isn't a Christian - that one is not "saved" - is exceptionally bad form.As ever, the net breeds bravado and strongly defensive behaviour - we see repeated use of No True Scotsman to squirm out of a corner. Ochaye is just an extreme and rather foolish example of this. I have come across his type every now and again in real life, and it is typically best to simply point and laugh from a respectable distance. His viewpoint is such a minority that his complete dominance of this thread is one of the biggest red-herrings on this site at the moment.

1965?? I'm not surprised. I would hazard a guess that in 2009, the MAJORITY (if not, the VAST MAJORITY) of UK evangelicals would be described as charismatic to one degree or another - maybe not by church, but certainly by congregation. To an anti-charismatic, anything beyond the hymn-prayer sandwich and maybe some controlled clapping along to "thank you Jesus" is considered the slippery slope. These evangelical churches have lost out considerably to the charismatic baptists, anglicans, methodists, house churches, and especially the modern church ministries. It is the minority that have gone to the extreme of embracing say the characteristics of the Toronto Blessing, but if we're talking just speaking in tongues - well, it's as common as prayer these days

Ah, so you mean the Catholic theologians... not sure how that helps your own side. Oh, sorry, did you mean the liberal theologians? Again, not sure if that actually helps. I guess you probably mean Evangelical theologians - but obviously not those evangelical theologians where their evangelical status would be dismissed by those Evangelicals such as yourself. Glad we have that cleared up...

And your criteria for technically competent in what is generally regarded as an exceptionally subjective field?

Err... Dear god, surely you are not so naive to think that theology is NOT subjective? If it is not, then after 2000 years, I guess that we have a concensus amongst the theologians of all major denominations of Christianity, that also agree broadly with the theologians of Judaism as far as the OT is concerned? Do we?