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Author | Topic: Evangelical Indoctrination of Children | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ochaye Member (Idle past 5269 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:So are the atheists and Catholics who are frightening children in order to smear evangelicalism to be let off scot-free? Tut, tut! They are a social menace, and there may need to be legal action to protect children from their predations.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5269 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:I don't know what is meant by this term. The RC canon is not common, if that is what we are supposed to think. Any reader left in a desert with a readable New Testament can reach a firm conclusion in far fewer than forty days. The conclusion is that Jesus has died for his or her salvation- and the reader will either love Jesus for his sacrifice, and want to follow him in loving others, or will prefer to live selfishly, greedily, rejecting that sacrifice. The person will either take the NT as good news, because guilt for evil acts done (and to be done) is taken away by Jesus, or as bad news, because the love of Jesus increases guilt if one wants to carry on doing evil things. If the former, the person would become a Christ-ian, who treats Jesus as saviour, and therefore lord, which is the implication of the word 'Christ'. The person would have assurance that the righteousness of Christ was sufficient to account him or her righteous before God because of his or her own reaction to the good news, and would want to inform others who had not heard this news. And that is all there is to being a Christian, as far as others are concerned. Christians as Christians have only one thing to say to non-Christians, and it can be read in Jn 3:16. That's how one knows a Christian, or rather, who's not one. Anyone who talks too much, about Genesis, tongues, Mass, water baptism, whatever, is an antichrist. Now where does the word 'evangelical' come in? It's not in the Bible. Actually, it's a euphemism, to protect the guilty, the pretenders in 'church' circles. No evangelical admits to being an evangelical among evangelicals. An evangelical calls himself, or herself, a Christian, nothing more, nothing less. To an evangelical, anyone who is not called an evangelical is not a Christian. Liberals, Catholics, Orthodox, whatever, need converting just as much as the Joe on the street, though they may be much more resistant to conversion, and it is probably a waste of time attempting to persuade them. That does not mean that all who are called evangelicals are Christian, though. The Christian rejects utterly people like Billy Graham, who are known as evangelicals but who support the RCC, that preaches the word of the Devil, that mankind must earn its way to heaven, a deadly message to all Christians. The vast majority, if not the totality, of the evangelical leaders of the USA are rejected for similar reasons. So are Pentecostals, who say, in effect, that one must gabble incoherently if one is to be saved. Calvinism is usually included as part of evangelicalism, but it is abhorrent to Christians, who believe that Jesus died for all, and wants all to come to a knowledge of him. Calvin was a Catholic and a lawyer, and his doctrine is exactly what one would expect from a cunning Catholic lawyer. Even conservative evangelicals, fully orthodox, are not necessarily Christians. In fact, the Christian, like Paul, does not say for certain that anyone else is a Christian. He or she is simply full of the assurance that, provided that he or she remains faithful and grateful to God, he or she will go to be with him in the fullness of time. That's a better sign of an evangelical than any formula. But this thread is not really about theology, it's about the social dangers of certain people. Now if a belief in hell makes people socially unacceptable, then Christians are socially unacceptable, along with all of the masses of pretenders in churches and cathedrals in Western countries and beyond who follow historic creeds. But Christians and mass membership never go together. Many are called, but few are chosen, and Christians never seek mass membership, but are, by contrast, very fussy indeed about who they allow into their fellowship, as apostolic warning requires them to be. They do not operate in the way we can witness on the linked video, where the methods of Islam are consciously emulated, under the fear of Islam! Those Pentecostals on the video are antichristian; not just because of the sickening brainwashing methods they use, but because their theology is fundamentally antichristian, being that of works-justification, just like that of Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and the circumcision party that Paul condemned. Plus a change... So there is, yet again, a link between anti-social elements and false teaching, as there has been since the desperate, grasping, tyrannical Constantine, whose own comforts depended on greedily exploiting others. It appears also that it is hoped that Christians will take the blame for the actions of those who, sitting quietly in the desert, reject the love of Jesus because they love their short-term advantage better. It's only what one would expect these people to hope for. Peter prophesied of some of them, if it was not predictable, like this: 'But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up.' 2 Pe 2:1-3 NIV Edited by ochaye, : typo Edited by ochaye, : typo
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5269 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:There are four Bible canons remaining in official use today, only one of which is Roman; they are all different, and of independent provenance. The rest of your post contains much more that mainstream theologians will disagree with, but, like the above, is off topic, and I will not address it. But thank you for the exchange.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5269 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
Start a thread in an appropriate forum, and I'll gladly explain.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5269 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:But you do reach agreement. The problem is not on agreeing, but on liking what is agreed. Everyone knows what the Bible says, but finding someone who agrees with it is like looking for hen's teeth.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5269 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:The absence of a reason for that being difficult gives very good reason to suppose that it is perfectly true that everyone understands the Bible, and more than they want to in many cases. All we seem to have here is argumentum ad hominem, less ponderously known as the white flag. Edited by ochaye, : No reason given.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5269 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:The Bible does not say that. It says that those who reject Christ hate the truth, and by that it means that they hate the truth about themselves. That truth is that they are sinners, i.e. they offend others in their actions and their words. That unwillingness to admit guilt and behave in a decent, civil manner (and the Bible's God wants nothing more than that) might perhaps be said to make them bastard children, but it puts them out of the company of the creator, and into the 'outer darkness' where their guilt and shame will accompany them for eternity. The Bible does say that we are gods, i.e. we have sovereign right to decide our own destinies, based on our attitude to truth. So we can choose to accept our sinful condition, and acknowledge the forgiveness that comes from the cross of Christ; or, we can choose to deny that we do wrong, or admit that we do wrong, but be unwilling to accept that Jesus died for our sakes. In the latter cases, we self-destruct in a blaze of incandescent fire and smoke, because it is a dreadful and momentous thing for a god to destroy himself or herself. The horror and the shame of it may be far too great to express in words.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5269 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:Well, of course it is. That's why monarchs have borrowed (usurped) its authority for two thousand years. It's why there are a thousand 'net threads about it at any one time, and 30 thousand denominations that are still obsessed by it. When someone quickly moves the goalposts, one knows that one has won the match.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5269 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote: 'Egw eipa theoi este.' 'Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'?"' Jn 10:34 NIV
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5269 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:I might. But then, maybe I'm not a beginner. The psalm is to be interpreted by the context of Jesus' words, isn't it. Now that stretches the mind a tad, doesn't it? No doubt it really puts the fear of God into the fatuous, overfed slobbering red-neck 'Christians' of the USA who invented this eisegesis, along with other lunacies, but a nice, courteous, clever chap like you won't fall for that, surely. Edited by ochaye, : No reason given.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5269 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:Oh, that's possible. I'm just telling people what the Bible says. I wish it wasn't necessary to tell people what my posts say!
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