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Author Topic:   Cdesign proponentist troll recruiting center
subbie
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Posts: 3344
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 1 of 107 (518912)
08-09-2009 2:57 PM


Apparently part of the course credit for classes on Intelligent Design at the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary is a requirement that the student

provide at least 10 posts defending ID that you’ve made on “hostile” websites, the posts totalling 2,000 words, along with the URLs (i.e., web links) to each post

link

Now, I was a liberal arts guy in college, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I highly doubt that any real science courses in which one gets a real science education at a real university or college has any similar course requirement. It seems that the Wedge Strategy is still alive.

Edited by subbie, : Noun change in title


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 08-09-2009 5:18 PM subbie has responded
 Message 7 by Mr Jack, posted 08-10-2009 5:29 AM subbie has acknowledged this reply
 Message 8 by anglagard, posted 08-10-2009 5:43 AM subbie has acknowledged this reply
 Message 9 by Mr Jack, posted 08-10-2009 6:59 AM subbie has acknowledged this reply
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subbie
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Posts: 3344
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 5 of 107 (518928)
08-09-2009 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Taz
08-09-2009 5:18 PM


Might be interesting to chart their activity, see how many of them simply disappear after 20 posts. Or, when we get a few showing up at the same time, ask them if they're getting course credit.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 08-09-2009 5:18 PM Taz has not yet responded

  
subbie
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Posts: 3344
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 6 of 107 (518929)
08-09-2009 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Theodoric
08-09-2009 5:26 PM


Well, part of the Wedge Strategy is Publicity and Opinion-Making. I can see how they'd think that this sort of thing would further that goal. On the other hand, one would think they'd be more likely to make opinions if they went to websites where there weren't dozens of people to counter each point they posted. But I suppose by going to "hostile" websites, they imagine that they're creating evidence of a controversy that needs to be taught.

You know, the more I think about it, the more sense that makes. They know that they're not going to create any controversy in legitimate, professional publications. About the only avenue left for them is teh interwebs. And that would have the added advantage of being considerably more accessible to the general public than professional publications.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Theodoric, posted 08-09-2009 5:26 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
subbie
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Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 16 of 107 (519042)
08-10-2009 8:38 PM


Dembski in a snit
Seems Dembski's all het up over science types mocking his course requirements. Link

His first comment is that he thinks it "sticks in [Darwinists'] craw" that he sends his students out to post on hostile websites. I won't pretend to speak for anyone else, but it certainly doesn't stick in my craw. In fact, without a fairly regular infusion of fresh creo blood, this place gets rather stale. It would be nice if he'd coach them to raise something besides PRATTs, but then that wouldn't leave them much to say, would it?

Next, apparently he thinks

requir[ing] students to go to these websites and defend ID, it is sound pedagogy.
His emphasis.

I might agree if he required his students to actually engage in a debate, rather than simply hitting and running. I suppose it's possible that he makes it clear in class that engagement is required, but it's certainly not made clear in the on-line syllabus.

If all that's required is a certain quantity of writing, surely there'd be no need that it consist of forum board posts. If engagement is required, there's nothing online to suggest that. All of this suggests to me that my earlier supposition that Dembski thinks this somehow furthers some aspect of the Wedge Strategy is accurate.

Oh, also, apparently I'm projecting in calling them trolls. I acknowledge, as some have pointed out, that troll probably isn't technically accurate. So sue me.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by RAZD, posted 08-10-2009 9:04 PM subbie has acknowledged this reply
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subbie
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Posts: 3344
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 22 of 107 (519123)
08-11-2009 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by RAZD
08-11-2009 7:43 AM


Re: So iff ID is not a religious teaching ...
The only thing that I find curious is that it's so easily documented in a publicly accessible location that ID indoctrination . . . erm . . . education is based on religion. The religious basis of ID is an open secret to those who study it. All this does is provide further support for that conclusion.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by RAZD, posted 08-11-2009 7:43 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Coyote, posted 08-11-2009 3:51 PM subbie has responded

  
subbie
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Posts: 3344
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 24 of 107 (519127)
08-11-2009 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Coyote
08-11-2009 3:51 PM


Re: So iff ID is not a religious teaching ...
...there is little chance that IDer's claims that ID is science will ever again be taken seriously.

Sadly, I beg to differ. If Dover wasn't enough to convince someone of the religious nature of ID, this isn't going to make any difference. The best that we can hope for is that this will help win the next court, or perhaps legislative, battle.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Coyote, posted 08-11-2009 3:51 PM Coyote has not yet responded

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subbie
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Posts: 3344
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


(1)
Message 65 of 107 (589454)
11-02-2010 5:04 PM


TOPIC PLEASE
This is not another general creationism topic for Bertot to display his ignorance and everyone to pile on. Could we please limit discussion to the actual topic?

Thank you.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


Replies to this message:
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 Message 73 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-02-2010 6:30 PM subbie has acknowledged this reply

  
subbie
Member
Posts: 3344
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 91 of 107 (589755)
11-04-2010 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Dawn Bertot
11-04-2010 10:28 AM


Re: Suggestion
Would you please stop posting off topic material in my thread.

If you can't tell that this is off topic, perhaps you should stop posting in this thread entirely.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-04-2010 10:28 AM Dawn Bertot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-04-2010 11:26 AM subbie has acknowledged this reply

  
subbie
Member
Posts: 3344
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 100 of 107 (589864)
11-04-2010 8:03 PM


I have asked Dawn Bertot to stop participating in this thread since he cannot stay on topic. He has apparently acceded to my request. I would suggest that anyone wishing to ask him further questions start a new thread.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


  
subbie
Member
Posts: 3344
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


(1)
Message 105 of 107 (596143)
12-13-2010 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by BarackZero
12-13-2010 12:44 PM


Re: A comment on the thread title
The term "cdesign proponentists" comes from a book called Of Pandas and People. When it was first written, it used the term "creationist." Later editions, in an effort to get around First Amendment issues, changed the term to "design proponent." However, in one instance, the change was not properly done, leaving the phrase "cdesign proponentist" behind. See Skepticwiki.

It's a transitional form between creationist and design proponent, giving us clear evidence of the evolution of creationism in response to various court decisions.

{AbE}

Oh, BTW, are you aware that when Thomas Jefferson was talking about ridicule being the only weapon against unintelligible propositions, he was talking about the Christian concept of the Trinity? Just curious.

Edited by subbie, : As noted


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by BarackZero, posted 12-13-2010 12:44 PM BarackZero has not yet responded

  
subbie
Member
Posts: 3344
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 107 of 107 (596154)
12-13-2010 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Panda
12-13-2010 1:07 PM


Re: A comment on the thread title
It also strikes me that he's rather oblivious. He criticizes Mr. Jack for using a term that was in the thread title and OP, and ignores the several responses a few messages in that explained the term to Parasomnium. But then, oblivious seems to be his stock in trade, so no real surprise there.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Panda, posted 12-13-2010 1:07 PM Panda has acknowledged this reply

  
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