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Author Topic:   Can God lie?
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 266 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 76 of 79 (594488)
12-03-2010 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by purpledawn
12-03-2010 9:18 AM


Re: Can God Lie? Does God Lie?
purpledawn writes:

Of course the question of the thread is: which of these is right? can He or can He not lie?

to be fair, this question was answered six and a half years ago, by brian, in the second post of this thread, which i shall reproduce here in its entirety:

quote:
God lied to poor Ahab:

1 Kings 22:22-23 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Of course, some people would say that God had every right to lie to Ahab, but it was still a lie.

Brian

http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?control=msg&t=7785


discussion over, right? according to the bible, god can and does lie. the question then becomes what to do with the verses that appear to say otherwise... and your post addresses that quite well.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by purpledawn, posted 12-03-2010 9:18 AM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by purpledawn, posted 12-03-2010 3:43 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 266 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 77 of 79 (594492)
12-03-2010 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by purpledawn
12-03-2010 12:05 PM


you shall surely die
purpledawn writes:

The writer has God threaten to kill A&E if they eat from the tree, when they actually eat from the tree he decides not to kill them. Instead he gives an alternative punishment.

Is it considered a lie when someone gives a lesser punishment than the one threatened?

this might be a good way to read it.

but then again, it might not. the implication in the text is that the tree will cause death, not that god will punish them for disobedience. but this is a really subtle point, and certainly debatable. perhaps god just likes to phrase things in incredibly indirect ways.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by purpledawn, posted 12-03-2010 12:05 PM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by purpledawn, posted 12-04-2010 5:51 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 990 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 78 of 79 (594499)
12-03-2010 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by arachnophilia
12-03-2010 3:13 PM


Re: Can God Lie? Does God Lie?
quote:
to be fair, this question was answered six and a half years ago, by brian, in the second post of this thread, which i shall reproduce here in its entirety:
Brian shows a good example of God lying, but it didn't really address what the originator was asking concerning the two verses.

The two verses presented in the OP, don't really give contradictory information. I think the writer of Titus is dealing more with the idea that God doesn't break his promises, as opposed to, lying for a just reason.

Both verses can be right and neither negates the ability of God to lie.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by arachnophilia, posted 12-03-2010 3:13 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 990 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 79 of 79 (594631)
12-04-2010 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by arachnophilia
12-03-2010 3:18 PM


Re: you shall surely die
quote:
but then again, it might not. the implication in the text is that the tree will cause death, not that god will punish them for disobedience. but this is a really subtle point, and certainly debatable. perhaps god just likes to phrase things in incredibly indirect ways.
If Eve thought the fruit was poisonous, she took a big risk trusting the snake. Remember Eve gave a little different rendition of God's command.

but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die."

Makes you wonder if she touched the tree first.

The author doesn't depict God character as lying. Since this is a fictional story, we are talking about a character of God and not really God.

At least 1 Kings is depicting their take on reality.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by arachnophilia, posted 12-03-2010 3:18 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
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