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Author Topic:   American Budget Cuts
Taz
Member (Idle past 3282 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 309 of 350 (607079)
03-01-2011 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 308 by Phage0070
03-01-2011 7:58 PM


Re: inequality widens, gets worse for the workers
Phage0070 writes:
No, but I understand that wealth aids in creating more wealth. This means that the creation of wealth is an accelerating process and the only way to avoid those sorts of concentration is to simply take it from those who own it, who made it, and give them nothing in return.
Put a limit on how much wealth they could accumulate. Before you cry bloody murder, hear me out. I'm not suggesting we put the limit so low that everybody would be poor. That said, a person will never ever need $60 billion. On the same token, a person can't live on a dollar a week.
Capitalism is a great system for generating wealth. I'd have to give it that. But it does a terrible job at raising the standard of living. The middle class as we know it today exists solely because of government regulations. It has nothing to do with the kindness of the money barons.
We've already tried uncontrolled capitalism in the past. What resulted were some of the worst human rights violations in history. Again, nobody is ever going to need $60 billion. On the other hand, a person can't live on a dollar a week.
It is in capitalism's nature to encourage the very few to gather up most of the wealth of a nation by exploiting the rest of the population.
I go with what my grandfather used to say. Too much of anything is bad. You wouldn't want capitalism to be the only law governing our society anymore than eating pizza for the rest of your life.
This is why conservatives piss me off. To them, deregulated capitalism is the answer to everything, nevermind that we've already tried it once and it led to the great depression.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by Phage0070, posted 03-01-2011 7:58 PM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by Phage0070, posted 03-01-2011 10:27 PM Taz has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3282 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 321 of 350 (607123)
03-02-2011 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 313 by Phage0070
03-01-2011 10:50 PM


Re: simple
Phage0070 writes:
But again, gifting money would have to be off limits to avoid concentrating wealth. Suppose Grandpa Hilton only funds the hospitals owned by Father Hilton, Mother Hilton, Son Hilton, etc... Not quite what you were after was it?
First of all, you need to stop with this what-if bullshit. This is little better than creationist tactics of what-iffing something to death.
Rich people tend to have the tendency to spend some money on charity and then twice that amount to publicize it. I'm not saying that all rich people do this, but at the same time you seem to be idolizing them quite a bit here.
I'd have to agree with jesus on this one. If I have 60 billion dollars and I give 2 million to charity, that's just pocket change for me. Besides, I have people like you idolizing me so that I can feel better for myself.
You're ignoring all the altruistic efforts by simple folks who give way way way more than rich folks. Perhaps they don't have the monetary values to show for it, but they certainly give a whole shitload more.
I remember when princess diana was touring the world. I was still in middle school when she was doing this. Despite the reports that she spent 10 times as much on her make-up and dresses everyday than what she gave to charity, people like you were idolizing her up and down. She took a picture with some poor kid and OMG she's a goddess! Please, someone that spends thousands of dollars each day to make herself look good is hardly someone worth you idolizing. So, stop with this bullshit.
When I had just graduated college and was still struggling to stabilize my life, I once ran across a runaway kid who wanted a ride. It was obvious he had not been eating well, so I took him to a restaurant. Talked to him for an hour or two and convinced him to go home. I then drove several hours out of my way to take him home. Once I saw him go inside to his parents I just left. Never once did I try to preach him about my personal beliefs like certain people here with their church coup kitchen (ahem).
That's how you help humanity, not spend $5k a day on make-up or give to charity $10k and then spend $2 million to tell people about it.
Some might accuse me of saying these things because I'm poor and I hate rich people. You know that Obama's tax plan that would tax rich people more? Half of my family fall under that catagory. I'm not saying don't try to be rich. But please spare me the bullshit that comes with it.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by Phage0070, posted 03-01-2011 10:50 PM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by Phage0070, posted 03-02-2011 8:21 AM Taz has replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3282 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 327 of 350 (607280)
03-02-2011 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 322 by Phage0070
03-02-2011 8:21 AM


Re: simple
phage writes:
First of all, this is hardly a far-fetched "what if" scenario. Second, we are talking about "what if" we limited the total wealth an individual can accumulate; if you wan't to stop with the "what if" then this particular thread of discussion just dies.
I don't mind what-ifs. I do mind what-iffing something just for the sake of what-iffing it. Based on my experience, anything at all can be what-iffed to death.
Take capitalism, for example. What if we follow the true path of unregulated capitalism? Then all the wealth in a nation would fall into the hands of a few people who would use the wealth to acquire more.
You can what-if all you want, but please be a little realistic. At least my what-if example is based on historical facts. Your what-if is more like "oh noes, what if the rich won't be able to get rich enough..."
Its this sort of non sequitur which really puts spice into discussions. I thought that I was debating the benefits and costs of hard maximum wealth limits in a capitalistic free market as it applies to society overall, but apparently Jesus has an opinion and Taz can tell it to me!
*Blink* You did not just say that did you? On a forum specializing in debates about these things, you seriously don't get my reference?
Ok... I haven't even approached any sort of moral judgment on the topic of charity, mainly because its irrelevant. Non-monetary altruism is completely off topic which is why its being ignored.
Yes, you have. You've been yapping quite a few times on how good rich people are for giving to charity. Just go back and see for yourself.
How about you make an effort to stay with the topic?
American Budget Cuts. I believe that's the topic of this thread, no? It says so in the title.
Edit.
More to the point. Who do you think pay for the budget cuts? Santa Claus?
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by Phage0070, posted 03-02-2011 8:21 AM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 328 by Phage0070, posted 03-02-2011 10:28 PM Taz has replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3282 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 330 of 350 (607288)
03-02-2011 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 328 by Phage0070
03-02-2011 10:28 PM


Re: simple
phage writes:
That doesn't follow. What caused the middle class and poor to start losing real wealth rather than continually gaining it, like what has been historically happening?
Before I go down this path of debatre with you, I need to know if you're genuinely this naive or if you're just playing dumb.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by Phage0070, posted 03-02-2011 10:28 PM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by Phage0070, posted 03-02-2011 11:38 PM Taz has replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3282 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 333 of 350 (607292)
03-03-2011 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by Phage0070
03-02-2011 11:38 PM


Re: simple
Ok, let me get this straight. Are you claiming that the wealth distribution is becoming more equalized? I just want to make sure because you seem to be under some kind of spell that prevents you from being non-cryptic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Phage0070, posted 03-02-2011 11:38 PM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 334 by xongsmith, posted 03-03-2011 3:07 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 336 by Phage0070, posted 03-03-2011 7:10 AM Taz has not replied

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