Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,906 Year: 4,163/9,624 Month: 1,034/974 Week: 361/286 Day: 4/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   States petition for secession
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 331 of 384 (689492)
01-31-2013 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by NoNukes
01-30-2013 5:28 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
I think the tyranny is unavoidable. Theocracies hold their principles as indisputable. Yet every Christian accepts that just being moral and just is not enough to meet their requirements. That means to me that theocracies are always going to be needlessly oppressive about issues that don't truly involve right and wrong.
Indeed.
The loftier the pretensions of the power, the more meddlesome, inhuman, and oppressive it will be. Theocracy is the worst of all possible governments. All political power is at best a necessary evil: but it is least evil when its sanctions are most modest and commonplace, when it claims no more than to be useful or convenient and sets itself strictly limited objectives. Anything transcendental or spiritual, or even anything very strongly ethical, in its pretensions is dangerous and encourages it to meddle with our private lives. --- C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2013 5:28 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Faith, posted 01-31-2013 3:18 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 352 of 384 (689570)
02-01-2013 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by Faith
01-31-2013 3:18 AM


Tyranny
Yes, it seems to me pretty clear now that theocracy can't work at all in this fallen world. I'd love to find a way to get out from under what I consider to be the current intolerable governmental tyranny ...
Tyranny. Right. Instead of a tyranny where all adults get to vote, you want a free republic where only people who agree with you get to vote.
Or ... wait ...
Look, just because you don't like the outcome of living in a democratic republic, that doesn't make it a tyranny.
And after all, what tyrannical things has this republic done to you? Has it deprived you of your freedom of speech, your freedom of religion? Executed you, put you in a concentration camp? Not at all. Your objection to it seems to be that it allows things you disapprove of, for example letting Jews have the vote. Its "tyranny" involves an supposed excess of liberty which your ideal republic would apparently take away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Faith, posted 01-31-2013 3:18 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by Faith, posted 02-01-2013 4:53 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 353 of 384 (689571)
02-01-2013 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by Coyote
02-01-2013 1:13 AM


Re: Booming?
Oh look, someone said something stupid on the Internet!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Coyote, posted 02-01-2013 1:13 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 360 of 384 (689610)
02-01-2013 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by Faith
02-01-2013 4:53 AM


Re: Tyranny
Yes, that's what I want, a state where Christianity rules but that nobody is denied basic rights. All the accusations that I want a tyranny are false, I just want to be free of ideologies I despise and I wanted to see how far it might be possible to do something like that without depriving anyone of their rights.
Except the right to vote.
And again I'd mention the fact that some religions are tyrannical at the core, with designs to rule the world, and that Protestantism is not one of them.
That depends on the Protestant.
World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. [...] Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land - of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ.' (404- Not Found)
Those who are obedient to His commands will rule the world, reconstructing it for His glory in terms of His laws. [...] The nation that will not serve us will perish (Isa. 60:12); all the peoples of the earth will be subdued under our feet (Ps. 47:1-3)--promises made originally to Israel, but now to be fulfilled in the New Israel, the Church.' (404- Not Found)
In Muslim countries you aren't allowed political power if you aren't a Muslim ...
That, again, would depend on the Muslim country.
This government is BECOMING a tyranny, it's on its way there, although you apparently don't see it. Some of us have seen it coming for a long time.
And all this long time you've been seeing it coming, it hasn't actually come, has it?
How is it on its way? Have political dissidents been a little bit imprisoned, executed, deprived of the vote?
You throw the word "tyranny" around very carelessly. We have a democratic republic, bound by the rule of law and circumscribed by a constitution. Our citizens are not shot for dissent, they're not dragged off to torture chambers, they're not burned at the stake, they don't have to submit to an ideological purity test before they can vote, they can say what they like and worship how they choose. If you lived under a real tyranny, you'd be screaming for a system such as we have. Possibly literally. Read about Stalin, about Hitler, about Caligula, about Bloody Mary. Then if you still come crying to me that the US is "becoming a tyranny", I'll laugh in your face.
You are free and living in one of the freest countries in the world --- one of the freest countries that there has ever been. Enjoy it. I do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by Faith, posted 02-01-2013 4:53 AM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024