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Author | Topic: Open letter to all Atheists. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Omnivorous Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.5
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faceman writes: It does claim to be God's word, however. God cannot be God if He is errant. That would make Him less than perfect and allow for improvement, which cannot be true if He is the ultimate supreme being (which could not be improved upon). If God is inerrant, then so is His word. Logic is fun. Let's try this one, based on your premises:
quote: As PaulK pointed out so perfectly, logic is a word machine: pack it with the ingredients you like, and you get perfect little sausages, flavored just the way you like them, out the other end...or at least something shaped like sausages."If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Evolution does not comport with a Creator. To do so, would require the Creator to be fallible, which would disqualify Him as God (since the Creator must be perfect). So according to you, created beings which almost immediately disobey represents perfection, whereas a created being which evolves and produces more kinds, and in which no such Fall happens means God is imperfect. What you do, then is to take God's creation in which we can show that evolution happens even if we cannot show to you that humans evolved, and judge it to be lacking. What kind of idiot argument is that? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Evolution does not comport with a Creator. To do so, would require the Creator to be fallible ... Why? In what way? How? As you have not supplied an argument, it is hard to see whether you're right or wrong. However, I would point out that we can directly observe some evolution, which presumably you do not deny. So unless you want to become an atheist, what you need is an argument that a bit of evolution is compatible with God, but that a bit more isn't. G'luck with that.
Therefore evolution is not compatible with God. If evolution is true, atheism must follow (as there could be no God). They go hand in hand. Again, this would seem to be your opinion. If a teacher teaches the reasons for thinking that evolution is true, and you teach that this necessarily proves that there is no God, which one of you is actually teaching atheism? If a teacher teaches that the sky is blue, and you teach that if there was a God it would be pink with green spots, who is doing more to promote disbelief?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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He'd also need to add: "Sorry about that Creation-in-6-days thing. I really threw you literalists a curve on that didn't I? And the after-their-own-kind bit, fuhgeddaboudit." If there is a God, you must admit that he has certainly allowed the world to be littered with misleading scriptures which have deceived billions of people, from the Koran through the Bhagavad Gita to the Gnostic Gospels. I leave it up to you to determine why, but clearly it's not something he feels he needs to put a stop to. As to whether he will apologize for this, again I'll leave it to you to conjecture.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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Maybe as an atheist you can say that, but not as a Christian. As a Christian, you have to acknowledge that the Bible (including Genesis) is the inerrant word of God. Thus a Christian cannot claim that the Genesis story is inaccurate. To do so would ultimately indict God himself as flawed (capable of making mistakes). Again - as an atheist you can say that, but a Christian cannot. Ahh, yes "No True Scotsman Fallacy". Knew he was going to use it, just surprised it took so long.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
If I have a boolean variable, assign it TRUE, it can't then at the same time become a walnut. Sure, it can. All it requires is to change the meaning of "walnut" to that of "TRUE". It is all to do with language (including naming conventions).Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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Have you accepted that some Christians have realized that the Bible is not literally inerrant? Or are you maintaining that you cannot see the errors in the Bible and still be a Christian? Are you going to go the bullshit route of "they aren't true Christians"?
He'd also need to add: "Sorry about that Creation-in-6-days thing. I really threw you literalists a curve on that didn't I? And the after-their-own-kind bit, fuhgeddaboudit." He'd more likely go: "Dude, there was even a talking snake in that story, how could you think that it actually happened? You know snakes don't talk, right?"
If God is perfect, then He cannot make mistakes. The Bible describes God realizing a mistake of his here:
quote: .
For evolution and God to be true simultaneously, God must have made a mistake (in His Bible). But He can't make mistakes, if He exists - so we're back to the same premise: either evolution is true, or God is true. But we don't get to claim both. False dicotomy. God could have used evolution to create the animals and never intended the story in Genesis to be taken as a literal event.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You don't want prayer because it offends you and you feel like religion is being forced on you. Do you have any examples of what you are talking about? Who is saying that they don't want you praying?
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JonF Member (Idle past 198 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
As a Christian, you have to acknowledge that the Bible (including Genesis) is the inerrant word of God Perhaps (that is arguable), but you are not working form the inerrant word of God. You are working from your fallible interpretation of the inerrant word of God. An interpretation with which the majority of Christians would disagree. (and, I note, claiming know the Mind of God and tell what makes sense to Him and what does not -- extreme hubris).
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Diomedes Member Posts: 996 From: Central Florida, USA Joined: |
If I have a boolean variable, assign it TRUE, it can't then at the same time become a walnut. If your programming language is not strongly typed, then it is easy to turn 'true' into a 'walnut'. $somevariable = "true";// Change variable $somevariable = "walnut";
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
There seems to be an inconsistency in your arguments. You write:
You're not suggesting atheism implies that there is no God, are you? Because that's unknowable from a natural worldview ... But then you argue in your other posts that establishing certain purely natural propositions (such as the claim that evolution occurred) as fact, would definitively prove that there is no God. You can't be right about both these things.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
since the Creator must be perfect
why must the creator be perfect?It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
riVeRraT writes:
I'm going to start wearing my collar backwards.
I am NOT offended by atheists. I am grateful for them. They help clean up crony religion and I believe are actually doing God's work.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Awesome!
The bible is not the inherent word of God. It is just words written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. I think I remeber reading that in the bible. I believe the words to be inspired because once I experienced what I believe to be the Holy Sipirt the words took on a different meaning. You can just call me crazy, I would have to. Also who is to say God didn't create all religions for his purpose? There is a lot of short sighted comments about God and His ways in this thread from atheist. No surprise as it happens in religion too. People always seem to confuse God with religion and people with God. Sad. I think the founding fathers knew the difference though.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
faceman writes: For evolution to be true, there can be no God faceman writes: You're not suggesting atheism implies that there is no God, are you? Because that's unknowable from a natural worldview.. First you assert that whether God exists or not depends on whether evolution is true or not then you say that the existence of God cannot be determined from a natural worldview. You appear to be contradicting yourself.
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