Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,903 Year: 4,160/9,624 Month: 1,031/974 Week: 358/286 Day: 1/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Open letter to all Atheists.
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 887 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 218 of 235 (730138)
06-24-2014 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Minnemooseus
06-24-2014 5:39 AM


Re: But Jesus was offended by public prayer
his verse is the lead in to the Lords Prayer. Which, if not initially, now seems to kind of be an example that contradicts Jesus' instructions in Mathew 6:7:
It is typically considered that the Lord's Prayer is a pattern to follow in praying. In other words, rather than simply reciting "forgive us our sins..." one should deal with specific sins which you yourself are guilty of. And when asking to "give us this day, our daily bread." we should be bringing our specific, daily needs to him.
Maybe it's Jesus being against organized religion.
He certainly had his most harsh words for those who were most "religious." IMO, the problem with organized religion is that it is all too easy to make the organized religious practices themselves the focus and primary significance rather than the purpose behind those practices. So for this case as an example, praying the Lord's Prayer verbatim can become a religious practice with no real meaning that becomes the focus rather than the actual principals behind it.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Minnemooseus, posted 06-24-2014 5:39 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 887 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 221 of 235 (730149)
06-24-2014 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by Diomedes
06-24-2014 9:38 AM


You claim this would not bother you, but I am pretty certain Christian's would be up in arms over such behavior.
Yea, I see this as the crux of the problem in allowing state-sponsored prayer. If only Christian prayers were allowed at the beginning of Congress or in school, that would be the state sponsoring a particular religious affiliation. Would they have to take the time to allow every possible religious group a time to offer a prayer? Seems a big waste of time to me.
No, I would not be pleased if my child's classroom began everyday with a Muslim prayer or some Buddist meditation. And it really doesn't make sense to use some generic prayer "Oh [insert name of personal god here], helps us this day..." Kinda pointless.
Maybe a good compromise would be to have a few moments of silence for prayer/meditation/reflection to get your heart and mind prepared for the task at hand and to commit to unselfishly doing the right thing. Our Congressmen/women could certainly use such a time
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Diomedes, posted 06-24-2014 9:38 AM Diomedes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Diomedes, posted 06-24-2014 10:37 AM herebedragons has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 887 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 224 of 235 (730156)
06-24-2014 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Modulous
06-23-2014 7:55 PM


That's pretty much all I can find that's relevant and to do with Jesus' instructions.
His longest and most detailed recorded prayer was at the Passover meal when he prayed for himself, the disciples, their future and for all future believers - recorded in John 17. Not really a public prayer, but it was in a group setting.
There is also Luke 18 where Jesus tells some parables about prayer. One is about persistence and one is about is praying in humility.
If you take an overall look at what Jesus taught about prayer and religious conduct in general, he insists that it is not to be used for person glorification, but is to be done in humility, for the glorification of God and for other people.
I think you pretty much got the gist of it, I just wanted to add those couple of examples to your list of instructions.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Modulous, posted 06-23-2014 7:55 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 887 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 225 of 235 (730157)
06-24-2014 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by Diomedes
06-24-2014 10:37 AM


School, after-all, is meant to be for book-learnin'.
Lol. Yea students would only use that time to pick their nose, or write a note to their friend or sneak a peak up little Suzy's skirt.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Diomedes, posted 06-24-2014 10:37 AM Diomedes has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024