|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,914 Year: 4,171/9,624 Month: 1,042/974 Week: 1/368 Day: 1/11 Hour: 1/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: PC Gone Too Far | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
We're not harming the historical record. We're correcting the errant presentation of that record that has been at odds with the reality. Are you talking about the monument in the OP?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
|
Are you talking about the monument in the OP? Yes. And many others. Monuments that glorify the Confederate cause which was slavery even when the monument has the tact to not mention that fact. Well that's definitely not the monument in the OP. It was put up by the daughters/granddaughters/wives/sisters etc. of the fallen soldiers who were upset by the unmarked confederate graves in the cemetery. So they spent years fund raising until they had the money to pay for a tribute to their fallen loved ones.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
|
Individual monuments say, "We're sad that our son/brother/husband/etc. died, no matter how he died." Collective monuments say, "Hurrah! our sons/brothers/husbands/etc. died in the glorious cause of _______!" Except the monument in the OP simply says:
quote: So offensive
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I didn't say anything was offensive. I didn't say that you did. Way to dodge the real point though. Edited by Cat Sci, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Just to be picky - what cemetery? If there was one at that location, it's gone now. The whole area is paved over and built on. This monument is 1 mile from St Stephan's Cemetery and 4 miles from the Cave Hill Cemetery. It was the Cave Hill Cemetery.
If the intent is/was to honor the Confederate dead, shouldn't it be with them? That would be up to the people who paid for it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
This collective monument doesn't say what you said collective monuments say.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
If the monument was intended to honor the dead buried in Cave Hill Cemetery, why is the monument 4 miles away? I think the place it is at used to be a cemetery too. It isn't clear:
quote: "Was purchased for use as" doesn't necessarily mean "was used as", so I dunno.
If the more public location was intended as an affront/political statement/whatever, does that mean the particular location is sacred somehow? I do think the place was somewhat strategically chosen:
quote: The particular location does have some historical significance.
In this case, I would think that the current location must be an agreement between the people who paid for (own?) the monument and those who own the land it currently sits on. According to wiki, the ownership of the monument is disuputed. The land is now owned by the University.
Off hand I would say the land belongs to either the city/county or the state as part of the road right of way. Yeah, the land around it used to be bigger but they made it smaller for traffic.
Short of an existing agreement, the land owner should be able to say "Lovely monument but I am going to use that land for my own purpose so move it." Sure, but that's not what is happening. According to the article in the OP, the guy pushing to have it removed says that it is "glorifying the nadir of America's past". It's not, its a tribute to fallen soldiers. He also said that "this statue being on the campus is somewhat akin to flying the Confederate flag over the (university's) administration building", which is a big stretch. This is a case of using being offended to push a political agenda, and this is a good case of PC Gone Too Far. This monument doesn't need to be removed and it's a stupid idea to do so.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
|
Cat Sci writes:
Sure it does. This collective monument doesn't say what you said collective monuments say. Are you high?
quote: is the same thing as:
quote: Really? Where's the hurrah? Where's the glorious cause?
It's a "tribute" to the "Confederate" dead. It implies rather strongly that their deaths were worthwhile. Some of them had to have been. But really, the people who built the monument were upset by unmarked graves and wanted something for them, and they could want that even if the deaths weren't worthwhile. Too, just because a cause was Confederate doesn't mean that it wasn't worthwhile. There was more going on than just slavery.
you in msg 127 writes: If they added a plaque that read, "These men died to preserve the institution of slavery," that would be preserving history. Oh, I see. You're incredibly ignorant. The rank and file of the armies of the South were not dying to preserve the institution of slavery. I don't know how anyone could be so stupid as to think that.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
That's terrible.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I believe that you do what you said.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I perceive slavery as the lack of those same good things: not being able to watch my children grow up because they've been sold, never knowing if I have grandchildren at all, not being able to move an inch without Massah's permission or do anything just because I feel like doing it. You should visit Monticello...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Evil is as evil does. Do evil and you're evil. And as I keep saying, history itself has no value unless we judge it by our own subjective standards. We can only improve our own behaviour by avoiding what we perceive as bad behaviour in the past. So can you admit that you, yourself, are evil? And that everybody today is evil? You're certainly doing things today that future generations will consider evil. Evil is as evil does, you're doing evil things today, therefore you are evil. And so is everybody else. When everyone is evil, it really looses its utility.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
And when nobody is evil, as Percy claims, it also loses its utility. I haven't seen him claim that.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Your perception of slavery is lacking.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
|
You're certainly doing things today that future generations will consider evil. or "could consider evil". By Ringo's logic, it's most definitely will. According to him, a person who never owned a slave but was conscripted into the Confederate Army was an evil person who fought to preserve slavery. So, anything your country does you are directly responsible for. Being a member of a country that continues to burn fossil fuels while they know that they're ruining the planet makes you an evil person. You really should feel bad about yourself
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024