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Author Topic:   PC Gone Too Far
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 734 (784908)
05-25-2016 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by AZPaul3
05-25-2016 1:16 PM


Re: Tone of the memorial
We're not harming the historical record. We're correcting the errant presentation of that record that has been at odds with the reality.
Are you talking about the monument in the OP?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by AZPaul3, posted 05-25-2016 1:16 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by AZPaul3, posted 05-25-2016 9:03 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 104 of 734 (784940)
05-26-2016 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by AZPaul3
05-25-2016 9:03 PM


Re: Tone of the memorial
Are you talking about the monument in the OP?
Yes. And many others. Monuments that glorify the Confederate cause which was slavery even when the monument has the tact to not mention that fact.
Well that's definitely not the monument in the OP. It was put up by the daughters/granddaughters/wives/sisters etc. of the fallen soldiers who were upset by the unmarked confederate graves in the cemetery. So they spent years fund raising until they had the money to pay for a tribute to their fallen loved ones.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by AZPaul3, posted 05-25-2016 9:03 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by 14174dm, posted 05-26-2016 12:25 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 106 of 734 (784946)
05-26-2016 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by ringo
05-26-2016 11:55 AM


Re: Tone of the memorial
Individual monuments say, "We're sad that our son/brother/husband/etc. died, no matter how he died." Collective monuments say, "Hurrah! our sons/brothers/husbands/etc. died in the glorious cause of _______!"
Except the monument in the OP simply says:
quote:
Our Confederate Dead, 1861-1865
Tribute to the Rank and File of the Armies of the South by the Kentucky Woman's Confederate Monument Association. 1895.
So offensive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by ringo, posted 05-26-2016 11:55 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by ringo, posted 05-26-2016 12:02 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 734 (784948)
05-26-2016 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by ringo
05-26-2016 12:02 PM


Re: Tone of the memorial
I didn't say anything was offensive.
I didn't say that you did.
Way to dodge the real point though.
Edited by Cat Sci, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by ringo, posted 05-26-2016 12:02 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by ringo, posted 05-26-2016 12:09 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 734 (784961)
05-26-2016 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by 14174dm
05-26-2016 12:25 PM


Re: Tone of the memorial
Just to be picky - what cemetery? If there was one at that location, it's gone now. The whole area is paved over and built on.
This monument is 1 mile from St Stephan's Cemetery and 4 miles from the Cave Hill Cemetery.
It was the Cave Hill Cemetery.
If the intent is/was to honor the Confederate dead, shouldn't it be with them?
That would be up to the people who paid for it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by 14174dm, posted 05-26-2016 12:25 PM 14174dm has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by 14174dm, posted 05-26-2016 3:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 734 (784962)
05-26-2016 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by ringo
05-26-2016 12:09 PM


Re: Tone of the memorial
This collective monument doesn't say what you said collective monuments say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by ringo, posted 05-26-2016 12:09 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by ringo, posted 05-27-2016 11:51 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 734 (784973)
05-26-2016 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by 14174dm
05-26-2016 3:55 PM


Re: Tone of the memorial
If the monument was intended to honor the dead buried in Cave Hill Cemetery, why is the monument 4 miles away?
I think the place it is at used to be a cemetery too. It isn't clear:
quote:
The area presently occupied by the nearby University of Louisville was purchased in 1850 by the city for use as an underutilized cemetery. source
"Was purchased for use as" doesn't necessarily mean "was used as", so I dunno.
If the more public location was intended as an affront/political statement/whatever, does that mean the particular location is sacred somehow?
I do think the place was somewhat strategically chosen:
quote:
The dedication was on July 30, 1895, in time to coincide with the 29th Grand Army of the Republic annual reunion later in September. The occasion began with a parade which started on Broadway and followed down 3rd street to the monument. The parade included 200 ex-Confederate soldiers...
The particular location does have some historical significance.
In this case, I would think that the current location must be an agreement between the people who paid for (own?) the monument and those who own the land it currently sits on.
According to wiki, the ownership of the monument is disuputed. The land is now owned by the University.
Off hand I would say the land belongs to either the city/county or the state as part of the road right of way.
Yeah, the land around it used to be bigger but they made it smaller for traffic.
Short of an existing agreement, the land owner should be able to say "Lovely monument but I am going to use that land for my own purpose so move it."
Sure, but that's not what is happening. According to the article in the OP, the guy pushing to have it removed says that it is "glorifying the nadir of America's past". It's not, its a tribute to fallen soldiers.
He also said that "this statue being on the campus is somewhat akin to flying the Confederate flag over the (university's) administration building", which is a big stretch.
This is a case of using being offended to push a political agenda, and this is a good case of PC Gone Too Far.
This monument doesn't need to be removed and it's a stupid idea to do so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by 14174dm, posted 05-26-2016 3:55 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 133 of 734 (785061)
05-27-2016 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by ringo
05-27-2016 11:51 AM


Re: Tone of the memorial
Cat Sci writes:
This collective monument doesn't say what you said collective monuments say.
Sure it does.
Are you high?
quote:
"Hurrah! our sons/brothers/husbands/etc. died in the glorious cause of _______!"
is the same thing as:
quote:
Tribute to the Rank and File of the Armies of the South by the Kentucky Woman's Confederate Monument Association.
Really? Where's the hurrah? Where's the glorious cause?
It's a "tribute" to the "Confederate" dead. It implies rather strongly that their deaths were worthwhile.
Some of them had to have been. But really, the people who built the monument were upset by unmarked graves and wanted something for them, and they could want that even if the deaths weren't worthwhile.
Too, just because a cause was Confederate doesn't mean that it wasn't worthwhile. There was more going on than just slavery.
you in msg 127 writes:
If they added a plaque that read, "These men died to preserve the institution of slavery," that would be preserving history.
Oh, I see. You're incredibly ignorant.
The rank and file of the armies of the South were not dying to preserve the institution of slavery.
I don't know how anyone could be so stupid as to think that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by ringo, posted 05-27-2016 11:51 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 11:46 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 153 of 734 (785157)
05-28-2016 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by ringo
05-28-2016 11:46 AM


Re: Tone of the memorial
That's terrible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 11:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 11:58 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 156 of 734 (785166)
05-28-2016 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by ringo
05-28-2016 11:58 AM


Re: Tone of the memorial
I believe that you do what you said.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 11:58 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 12:30 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 383 of 734 (786352)
06-20-2016 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by ringo
06-20-2016 12:50 PM


Re: The Washington Monument
I perceive slavery as the lack of those same good things: not being able to watch my children grow up because they've been sold, never knowing if I have grandchildren at all, not being able to move an inch without Massah's permission or do anything just because I feel like doing it.
You should visit Monticello...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by ringo, posted 06-20-2016 12:50 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 389 by ringo, posted 06-21-2016 11:39 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 384 of 734 (786357)
06-20-2016 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by ringo
06-19-2016 2:18 PM


Re: The Washington Monument
Evil is as evil does. Do evil and you're evil.
And as I keep saying, history itself has no value unless we judge it by our own subjective standards. We can only improve our own behaviour by avoiding what we perceive as bad behaviour in the past.
So can you admit that you, yourself, are evil? And that everybody today is evil?
You're certainly doing things today that future generations will consider evil.
Evil is as evil does, you're doing evil things today, therefore you are evil. And so is everybody else.
When everyone is evil, it really looses its utility.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by ringo, posted 06-19-2016 2:18 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 390 by xongsmith, posted 06-21-2016 11:53 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 392 by ringo, posted 06-21-2016 12:00 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 396 of 734 (786410)
06-21-2016 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by ringo
06-21-2016 12:00 PM


Re: The Washington Monument
And when nobody is evil, as Percy claims, it also loses its utility.
I haven't seen him claim that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by ringo, posted 06-21-2016 12:00 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by ringo, posted 06-22-2016 3:15 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 397 of 734 (786411)
06-21-2016 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 389 by ringo
06-21-2016 11:39 AM


Your perception of slavery is lacking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by ringo, posted 06-21-2016 11:39 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by ringo, posted 06-22-2016 3:16 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 398 of 734 (786412)
06-21-2016 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by xongsmith
06-21-2016 11:53 AM


Re: Evil cultures
You're certainly doing things today that future generations will consider evil.
or "could consider evil".
By Ringo's logic, it's most definitely will.
According to him, a person who never owned a slave but was conscripted into the Confederate Army was an evil person who fought to preserve slavery.
So, anything your country does you are directly responsible for.
Being a member of a country that continues to burn fossil fuels while they know that they're ruining the planet makes you an evil person.
You really should feel bad about yourself

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by xongsmith, posted 06-21-2016 11:53 AM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by NoNukes, posted 06-21-2016 10:47 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 415 by ringo, posted 06-22-2016 3:18 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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