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Author Topic:   The meaning of the trinity
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4644
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 271 of 281 (797459)
01-21-2017 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Phat
01-21-2017 4:41 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Phat writes:

OK. If so, is it possible that all atheists have already been given the opportunity to know God?

Which God Phat, which god? Vishnu, Allah, Thor? Have Christians been given the opportunity to ignore them and all the others?

The next question is why would one prefer to ignore Him?

There's nothing to ignore. How can a mythical creature that has no tangible or intangible impact on my life be ignored. You don't ignore things that don't exist. Neither you nor I are ignoring pixies are we?

Understanding an atheist's position is easy Phat, you just treat your belief in this god thing, the same as every other fantasy entity. It's absolutely no different.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 4:41 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:17 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:18 PM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 272 of 281 (797463)
01-21-2017 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Tangle
01-21-2017 6:18 AM


deleted

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Tangle, posted 01-21-2017 6:18 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 273 of 281 (797464)
01-21-2017 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Tangle
01-21-2017 6:18 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Maybe this explains it Tangle. My irrationality has been notably more prevalent lately.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Tangle, posted 01-21-2017 6:18 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Tangle, posted 01-21-2017 12:33 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4644
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 274 of 281 (797465)
01-21-2017 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Phat
01-21-2017 12:18 PM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Phat writes:

Maybe this explains it Tangle. My irrationality has been notably more prevalent lately.

I wouldn't say you're more irrational, you just seem a bit more 'needy'. Don't worry about it, 'this too will pass'.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:18 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13026
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 275 of 281 (797515)
01-23-2017 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Phat
01-21-2017 4:41 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Phat writes:

If so, is it possible that all atheists have already been given the opportunity to know God?


In our society, which is awash with talk about gods, everybody has had an opportunity to know God - unless He is deliberately hiding from some of us.

Phat writes:

The next question is why would one prefer to ignore Him? (Stay hypothetical in your answer. ) Just because you lack evidence...is that any reason to ignore Him?


Do you ignore the Loch Ness monster? Leprechauns? The Tooth Fairy?

Answer your own question: Is the lack of evidence for them any reason to not believe in them?

Phat writes:

What is it you would hypothetically want from Him that is any different from what I want from Him?


You're asking the wrong question. You should be asking what you GET from Him that I would want. As far as I can see, you're not GETTING anything that I'm not getting - so why would I put Him in the equation at all?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 4:41 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Phat, posted 01-24-2017 11:26 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 276 of 281 (797603)
01-24-2017 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by ringo
01-23-2017 10:54 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
ringo writes:

Do you ignore the Loch Ness monster? Leprechauns? The Tooth Fairy?

Yes. There is no reason nor purpose for believing in them. I used to believe in the tooth fairy only to be able to extort money out of her.

Answer your own question: Is the lack of evidence for them any reason to not believe in them?
No. lack of evidence plays a small role. I'm trying to figure you out, though. Answer me this: Would you spend as much time answering questions about Leprechauns as you do about God and Jesus?

What is it about the latter characters that make everyone suddenly want their opinion to be known?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by ringo, posted 01-23-2017 10:54 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by ringo, posted 01-24-2017 11:34 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13026
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 277 of 281 (797604)
01-24-2017 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by Phat
01-24-2017 11:26 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Phat writes:

There is no reason nor purpose for believing in them.


What's the reason or purpose for believing in God?

Phat writes:

lack of evidence plays a small role.


So what's the difference between the loch Ness monster, leprechauns, the Tooth Fairy and God?

Phat writes:

Answer me this: Would you spend as much time answering questions about Leprechauns as you do about God and Jesus?


Sure. Start a topic.

But bear in mind that I know a lot more about the fictional Christian God than I know about leprechauns. We don't have many leprechaun missionaries trying to convince us to believe.

Phat writes:

What is it about the latter characters that make everyone suddenly want their opinion to be known?


The Internet has a tendency to suck opinions out of people. Don't kid yourself that a lot of chatter about your belief validates your belief.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Phat, posted 01-24-2017 11:26 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 01-29-2017 10:05 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 278 of 281 (797910)
01-29-2017 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by ringo
01-24-2017 11:34 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
what's the difference between the loch Ness monster, leprechauns, the Tooth Fairy and God?
God exists. God existed before humans even had the capacity or ability to make Him up.
bear in mind that I know a lot more about the fictional Christian God than I know about leprechauns. We don't have many leprechaun missionaries trying to convince us to believe.
You won't find many missionaries from fictional characters. People think long and hard about giving their life....
Don't kid yourself that a lot of chatter about your belief validates your belief.

My point is that validity can be derived in ways apart from objective evidence. Subjective evidence counts also.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by ringo, posted 01-24-2017 11:34 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by ringo, posted 01-29-2017 1:26 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13026
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 279 of 281 (797923)
01-29-2017 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Phat
01-29-2017 10:05 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Paht writes:

ringo writes:

what's the difference between the loch Ness monster, leprechauns, the Tooth Fairy and God?


God exists. God existed before humans even had the capacity or ability to make Him up.

Nope. You may believe that one fictional character exists and others do not but that doesn't make your belief different from an atheist who believes in the Loch Ness monster.

Phat writes:

You won't find many missionaries from fictional characters.


Sure you will. Ever hear of Mormons? Cultists of all kinds? Snake-oil salesmen? What they're selling is pure fiction.

Phat writes:

People think long and hard about giving their life....


Clearly not. Ever hear of mountain climbers? Thrill-seekers of all kinds?

Phat writes:

Subjective evidence counts also.


No it doesn't. If it's subjective, it isn't evidence.

Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Don't kid yourself that a lot of chatter about your belief validates your belief.


My point is that validity can be derived in ways apart from objective evidence.

You're trying to claim that if a lot of people believe it, it must be true (valid). That's nonsense.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 01-29-2017 10:05 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 02-09-2017 3:08 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 280 of 281 (799305)
02-09-2017 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by ringo
01-29-2017 1:26 PM


The Proof is in the pudding...if we can find the pudding
ringo writes:

You may believe that one fictional character exists and others do not but that doesn't make your belief different from an atheist who believes in the Loch Ness monster.

You have yet to prove that God is a fictional character. We have done sonar readings in the Loch.
You're trying to claim that if a lot of people believe it, it must be true (valid). That's nonsense.
Perhaps, but absence of evidence does not conclude evidence of absense.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by ringo, posted 01-29-2017 1:26 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by ringo, posted 02-09-2017 11:31 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13026
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 281 of 281 (799342)
02-09-2017 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Phat
02-09-2017 3:08 AM


Re: The Proof is in the pudding...if we can find the pudding
Phat writes:

You have yet to prove that God is a fictional character. We have done sonar readings in the Loch.


We didn't find God in there either.

Phat writes:

Perhaps, but absence of evidence does not conclude evidence of absense.


The same applies to the Loch Ness monster.

Mind you, we do have eyewitness accounts of the Loch Ness monster - not of God. There's not enough evidence to conclude that the Loch Ness monster is a real biological. There is no evidence that God is a real spook.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 02-09-2017 3:08 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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