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Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
Percy
Member
Posts: 15909
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 481 of 858 (819694)
09-13-2017 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by Faith
09-13-2017 9:13 PM


Re: trilobites are trilobites are trilobites
Faith writes:

You kidding that isn't sa recognizable trilobite?

Oh, good grief, who are you kidding. Only yourself.

there is OBVIOUSLY one species of trilobites with many microevolved varieties thereof. The idea that they should be classified into anything other than Species is specious.

Yet another bald declaration with no supporting evidence from someone of demonstrated ignorance.

How do you suppose it got called a trilobite anyway if it isn't recognizable as a trilobite?

I think if you look over that page that PaulK and I recommended to you that you'll find the answer to this question.

The taxonomic classification system is entirely a matter of subjective judgment.

Another empty utterance from the clueless.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 479 by Faith, posted 09-13-2017 9:13 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5681
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 482 of 858 (819695)
09-13-2017 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Taq
09-08-2017 4:58 PM


Re: evidence?
Taq writes:

The stories written in the Bible by men are only evidence of what their religious beliefs were.

Yes we know this because the bible tells us so.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Taq, posted 09-08-2017 4:58 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 483 of 858 (819696)
09-13-2017 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 480 by Percy
09-13-2017 9:19 PM


Re: Again, the Geo Column shows the absurdity of the OE/ToE
you meant message 435 not 235.

Hold your horses. I've been dragged into this discussion kicking and screaming, I didn't want to pursue my whole argument on this thread, I simply wanted to restate my points which are going to remain standing anyway you know because none of the rebuttals have ever dealt with them and it's time somebody acknowledged their validity. Not that I'm holding my breath. In this environment they will NEVER get a fair hearing.

BUT I WILL NOW TAKE A BREAK FROM THIS MESS AND DEAL WITH THE POSTS YOU REFER ME TO LATER.

And thank you for ceasing toning down your abusive personal attacks.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 480 by Percy, posted 09-13-2017 9:19 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 507 by Percy, posted 09-14-2017 8:44 AM Faith has responded

    
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5681
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 484 of 858 (819698)
09-13-2017 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Faith
09-09-2017 11:54 AM


Re: Atheistic science?
Faith writes:

What if there is a God who made it all and your atheistic science just completely misses it?

Yes that should be your only stance Faith. God doesn't show us His existence by objective evidence after Jesus. You must believe by faith, Faith. John 3:16.

You and all of creation science are wasting their time trying to prove God's existence. That's not how it works. Man had their chance. God showed us His existence over and over in the old testament. It didn't work. Maybe it was never meant to work. We don't know God's ways. You are wasting your time trying to prove the flood happened.

I started this thread not to prove that the flood happened, only to prove that there is evidence of a flood. We just choose to ignore it. If you are a real scientist you cannot ignore all the evidence. We don't have all the evidence. I started this thread to make a point that nothing is ever proven, and that everything takes faith. To believe the sun will rise tomorrow takes faith. Atheists like to live their lives by objective evidence are wrong. The world is full of subjective things, and we all live by something subjective(love/hate). So to dismiss something merely on the fact that it is subjective is hypocritical. It is an objective fact subjectivity exists.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 11:54 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 486 by Faith, posted 09-13-2017 9:51 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded
 Message 487 by NoNukes, posted 09-13-2017 9:56 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded
 Message 509 by edge, posted 09-14-2017 10:35 AM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3960
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 485 of 858 (819699)
09-13-2017 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by Faith
09-13-2017 9:26 PM


Re: Again, the Geo Column shows the absurdity of the OE/ToE
DEAL WITH THE POSTS YOU REFER ME TO LATER.

Shortly after the Rapture, no doubt.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by Faith, posted 09-13-2017 9:26 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 486 of 858 (819700)
09-13-2017 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 484 by riVeRraT
09-13-2017 9:35 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
Just for the record I don't follow much of what is known as Creation Science, though I've gotten some leads from them, but mostly I think it all through on my own. And I'm not trying to prove God this way, I simply happen to think that there is evidence in the physical world that strongly supports the Flood and does not support the establishment point of view. I'd LOVE to blast the false theory of evolution into the next millennium and I believe the evidence is there, really there whether you or anybody else sees it or not. Jesus will probably have come back well before the next millennium anyway and then they'll know, but it would be SO satisfying to blast the smithereens out of that mind and soul destroyer before then..
This message is a reply to:
 Message 484 by riVeRraT, posted 09-13-2017 9:35 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9912
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 487 of 858 (819701)
09-13-2017 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 484 by riVeRraT
09-13-2017 9:35 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
. The world is full of subjective things, and we all live by something subjective(love/hate).

Subjective does not mean evaluating things without evidence or based on feelings. It means making decisions based on things that are not quantitative. Things like beauty and hate can be evidence-based even though they are subjective concepts. But believing something because you want to believe it or because you were taught is not subjective. Instead, it is a type of reasoning for which science has absolutely no use.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 484 by riVeRraT, posted 09-13-2017 9:35 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5288
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 488 of 858 (819702)
09-13-2017 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by Faith
09-13-2017 9:13 PM


Re: trilobites are trilobites are trilobites
And there is obviously one species of "mammal" with four limbs, a pelvis, a spine with a cranium at the end, teeth in nearly all cases,....
Just a lot of varieties, like big and little. Kind of like trilobites, come to think of it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 479 by Faith, posted 09-13-2017 9:13 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 490 by Faith, posted 09-13-2017 10:32 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3825
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 489 of 858 (819703)
09-13-2017 10:31 PM


Topic going into summary mode in 2 hours
Kind of a dubious topic (in the Coffee House no less) that has had 100+ messages in the last 24 hours. Can you say "tower of Babel?"

Maybe it will come out of summary mode later, but for right now, I'm putting the brakes on this one.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that©.

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 490 of 858 (819704)
09-13-2017 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 488 by Coragyps
09-13-2017 10:04 PM


Re: trilobites are trilobites are trilobites
Why stop with mammals? Why not include reptiles, whatever group they together belong to? They also could be described in much the same terms as mammals. What's the next category up? It could probably make a species too if we put our minds to it.

In other words, we need more specificity here. But not as much specificity that we have a bunch of different species of trilobites. I don't find it hard to split the pie myself, but perhaps you do?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 488 by Coragyps, posted 09-13-2017 10:04 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5988
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 491 of 858 (819705)
09-13-2017 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by Faith
09-13-2017 1:24 PM


Re: Again, the Geo Column shows the absurdity of the OE/ToE
Paradigm clash turns out to mean basically that nobody can ever argue from a different paradigm because the established paradigm is treated as sacrosanct and there is no tolerance for the other.

A theory, such as the ToE, is the single best explanation which accounts for all the relevant facts, which is contradicted by no relevant facts, and which makes successful predictions.

That is why the ToE is so widely supported and other explanations have a long way to go to supersede it.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Faith, posted 09-13-2017 1:24 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5681
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 492 of 858 (819706)
09-13-2017 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Percy
09-09-2017 12:31 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
Percy writes:

This site exists to discuss the claim that creation science *is* science, in the real sense of the word.

No True Scottsman?

Creation science is research, which is part of science, but it is not real science because of it's predetermined idea of what the result should be. That doesn't mean real scientists can't use any data collected during creation science. We just can't use their conclusions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Percy, posted 09-09-2017 12:31 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 513 by ringo, posted 09-14-2017 11:56 AM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5681
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 493 of 858 (819707)
09-14-2017 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Coyote
09-09-2017 10:42 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
Coyote writes:

But what if no gods exist, and someone bases their whole belief and interpretive systems on the existence of a particular god or gods? They're going to get a lot of things wrong.

Maybe no more wrong than anyone else. Maybe even the wisdom contained in the bible used in the right context can give you an advantage in life. Your statement is bigoted and biased.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Coyote, posted 09-09-2017 10:42 PM Coyote has acknowledged this reply

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5681
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 494 of 858 (819708)
09-14-2017 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by NoNukes
09-09-2017 10:54 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
NoNukes writes:

but about whether the Flood, which few here seem to suggest is about the non-physical, happened.

No, it's more about whether there is evidence at all. Too many people in here say there is no evidence at all. That sounds as biased as creation science.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by NoNukes, posted 09-09-2017 10:54 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13110
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 495 of 858 (819710)
09-14-2017 3:00 AM


Summary
The Flood side take evidence as mere excuses to reach a conclusion. The case of "Harvey" the hawk might support a few animals taking refuge on the Ark, but hardly pairs of everything. There is no attempt to understand or reason from the basic facts, let alone consider the wider context - one animal did it therefore all must do it instinctively. Which is completely ridiculous.

Faith is even worse citing her personal opinions as "observable facts" - even as being so obvious as to be beyond question - while the views of those who have actually made detailed observations are simply rejected out of hand. Even when her claims are clearly false.

Not only does Faith ignore the many rebuttals to her claims she outright denies that they exist - which is by any sane standard lying. Added to that a bunch of hypocritical whining trying to pretend that it is her opponents at fault for not sharing her ridiculous and obvious bias. It's not a pretty sight.


    
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