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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Somehow this (and see chapter 65 and all of 66) is used to justify throwing away the rule against eating pork. (see Faith's post for that source and quote)
quote: The Lion and Lamb not eating flesh is in chapter 65. There was a general attack on certain Israelite practices (how common, I have no idea, but pork bones are almost non existent in Israelite and Canaanite sites during the period of Isaiah). This is proof that ANYTHING can be twisted into saying the exact opposite. (There was a school of Pre Christian Nazarenes that did not eat meat and felt that Moses never legislated flesh sacrifices, like Jeremiah 7:22 seems to be saying)
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: You have no primary source. Just lies. Anybody can quote lies.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: I don't know if there was a Moses type who ever legislated sacrifice. Jeremiah seemed to question such a thing. See Jeremiah 7:22.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Do you have ANY idea what you are talking about? This kind of nonsense is why I don't usually venture to answer anything you post. You just don't know what you are talking about. Do you have any clue at all to the context of that passage of Isaiah 66? I'm sure you don't. You are always getting this sort of thing so extremely weirdly wrong it would take years to begin to set you straight. You seem to have amassed a lot of knowledge that you have NO idea how to use.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
So where is your primary source saying Canaanites sacrificed pigs?
Just a bunch of claims. By people who lie. Where are pigs mentioned in Ugaritic Offering lists? There is NOTHING even in the Bible to come close to backing up this claim.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
It is a bold faced lie to attempt to describe ANYTHING (relative to the animals being sacrificed) as being anything - in any way - to radically distance Israelites from Canaanites. Same with food.
This Fundi source below says the Israelites had sacrifice before the Canaanites, and goes to great lengths to describe the differences between the two. Ugarit - Encyclopedia of The Bible - Bible Gateway Notice no mention of pigs! (No evidence INFACT there is only evidence that Canaanites did NOT sacrifice pigs)
quote: Faith wants my posts reduced to a few sentences so she can repeat lies. So much for her claims that she and Fundi Christians are against sins.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Faith wants my posts reduced to a few sentences so she can repeat lies. So much for her claims that she and Fundi Christians are against sins. Your posts are way too long and rambling. I am not sure the extra sentences are helping you to make your case. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
At least I have quality sources and reference to the actual texts that matter.
Faith has nothing but dishonest assertions. (Really, I know of nothing in the Jewish rabbinical commentary that backs up this fundi claim that she and the trillions of fundis regurgitate) Roland de Vaux was a great conservative Christian scholar, and I showed he very clearly dismissed the idea of Isaiah 66:3 as representing Canaanite practice. I can't even have an honest discussion with Faith. She makes claims, and can't back them up. The only slight truth to her claim is that Israeli and Canaanite peoples were so closely related, that ANY ISRAELITE that ate pork can be said to have been PERFORMING a "heathen" practice (geographically, I suppose this could perhaps be broadly called "Canaanite" - to simply describe an apostate Israelite - though Canaanites themselves did not eat pork.) I have looked at the archaeological record of pre-Israelite cult places and they are lacking pig bones. Look at the book search for: Ethno Genesis by Avraham Faust pig bones Canaanites Now, he was attempting to make the case for less pig bones in Israelite sites, but he admitted that 2 important Canaanite cult sites lacked pig bones (in the latest Canaanite periods): Tell ed-Duweir Shiloh The chapter can be read on google books. I can find more examples perhaps. I am trying to get more information. Shiloh seems to be a cult site (for certain) and it lacked pig bones after the 18th century BCE, but the bones were 3.5% pigs before then. If I understand the archaeological terminology correctly (I admit I had to look it up to figure the terms year date meanings). Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
NoNukes writes: Your posts are way too long and rambling. I am not sure the extra sentences are helping you to make your case. LNA writes:
...3/4 of a page of rambling stuff about 1 line of which is a response snipped... Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Roland de Vaux was a great conservative Christian scholar, and I showed he very clearly dismissed the idea of Isaiah 66:3 as representing Canaanite practice. I see nothing in Isaiah 66:3 about Canaanites. What are you talking about?
...Canaanites themselves did not eat pork.) take a look at this paper. Scroll down to "Pigs at Sites in Canaan" where the first line is: "In Canaan at Early Bronze Arad, pig bones were found at all strata of the Early Bronze..." I quote that because it contradicts what you said about Canaanites not eating pork. But such archaeological evidence is open to error since they usually haven't excavated a whole site, which is mentioned in the article as a problem, and the presence of bones has to be subject to wrong interpretations anyway, so I don't want to make anything of it beyond that. And I really don't care about any of this stuff, it's way too iffy. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
(She has nothing in the Bible to back her claims, no Canaanite texts, no classical Phoenician texts SO HOW ABOUT ARCHAEOLOGY?)
I was just looking at the important cultic site of Shiloh and was attempting to look at pig bones. This five day old article sees this as almost something of another Temple Mount in terms of importance, the difference is it can be (and is) excavated. Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | CHLS Joins ABR in Historic Dig in Shiloh I found it because there is one (and only one) source that claims that 6% of pre-Israelite animal bones found in Shiloh were pig bones, while all other sources place it at 0% to 0.17%. Page 217, Beyond the Texts: An Archaeological Portrait of Ancient Israel and JudahBy William G. Dever, has a chart that places Pre Israelite Shiloh pig bones at 6% (then a chart showing the Israelite Shiloh suddenly turned to 0% pig bones) , but this 5 day old article says they were no higher than 4%. Everyone else has Shiloh at about 0% for like 500 years before this sacrificial center transitioned from Canaanite to Israelite. Here:
quote: And Here:
quote: Faith might not care, and perhaps you don't either. But a claim was made and it would be nice if she was forced to confront the total lack of evidence. (She won't) EDIT SHE DID! I need to see what she has. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
I see that Hitites would not sacrifice pigs or dogs.
Egyptians would not. Canaanite Shiloh didn't seem to from the Middle Bronze Age III on (whatever date that is, I assume it is Canaanite) During the entire Iron Age, Canaanite Dor had no pig bones. It depends on the site though. I will look at this more closely in the coming days. Thanks for taking a shot at the evidence Faith. (Shiloh in the Canaanite period is described as having pig bones at a 6% rate "Late Bronze Age" by the William Dever 2018 book, but that is contradicted by everything else that places it at 0.17%) Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: There is a difference between foods that are o.k. to eat and then the much more limited foods fit for sacrifice. Thousands of bones have been found at the Israelite cult site of Mt Ebal. 300,000 to be exact. The Israelite period have animals not fit for sacrifice (but fit for eating) like roe deer. See: History, Archaeology and The Bible Forty Years After "Historicity": Changing ...edited by Ingrid Hjelm, Thomas L. Thompson pp. 120-21
quote: This was describing the early Israelite period. But it is consistent with sacrifice of killing any firstborn animal that opens the matrix in Exodus, I suppose.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You really don't give enough explanation for a person to know what you are trying to say. I don't know where Mt. Ebal is, or Mt. Gerizim without looking on a map, and I don't know what the significance of those locations is in what you are trying to say, and I don't really trust archaeological dates, and I just have no idea what all those bones actually signify, and I'm not sure the archaeologists do either. As the Bible says the Israelites failed to drive out all the peoples God commanded them to, so how could one know, even if the dates are right, even if they identify the "Israelite period" how could anyone know how the bones got there or who was responsible for it? Let alone what it means. If the clues are there you haven't made use of them. The Israelites in the period of the Judges after the conquest of Canaan were always disobeying God too. If you are trying to make a case you have to take all of this into account.
You also say there is a difference between foods for eating and foods for sacrifice, but aren't making a case based on that for anything in particular that I can see. The priests were supposed to eat the sacrifice according to the scripture. But again it's hard to know what your evidence means. Does it pertain to Israelites at all, does it show them being disobedient or obedient to the scripture etc etc etc. And this is way off topic for this thread, and again I am not into any of this stuft at all. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Aussie Member Posts: 275 From: FL USA Joined:
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Faith writes:
You really don't give enough explanation... I don't know where... I don't know what... And I don't really trust... And I just have no idea... How could one know...? How could anyone know...? It's hard to know... I am not into any of this stuff at all... I get that you don't know, Faith. That much is abundantly clear. We all have areas we don't know much about, it's normal.What is not clear to me is why you are wasting time posting so many strongly worded opinions about an area you admittedly don't know anything about, and "are not really into" in the first place. "...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"
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