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Author Topic:   Destruction of Pompei is 1631 year.
elcano
Member (Idle past 1786 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 1 of 132 (376775)
01-13-2007 6:36 PM


All data on 14C are based on the assumption, that Pompeii were lost in 79 year.
There are facts, that the city was lost on December, 16th, 1631.
What is correctly?

On the Via Nazionale road from Naples to Reggio/Calabria, at 15 km, a so-called "Epitaphio" on the face of the Villa Faraone Mennella today presents two memorial inscriptions in Latin on a monumental volcanic stone.

"This road from Naples to Reggio [i.e. the Royal City], infamous for continuous robberies [raids] and difficult transit on account of the arid stones of Mount Vesuvius, has been freed from ambush, levelled, straightened and broadened, by means of the funds given by the Province.
Later 68 years in 17 Calend. (on December, 16th) January in Phillip's reign IV.
Smoke, flame, roaring, shaking, ashes, eruption awfully wild at that time Vesuvius has obviously caused fear in one, and at weight of people. The heated heat from an aperture of the fiery cave, violently loudly roaring, has opened the way through constraining surface to an output, has moved to Hellespont, has furiously destroyed top of mountain, monstrously suddenly widely having opened a pharynx of mountain, next day a tail of ashes was dragged all filling similarly to the sea hostile to the sea. The river of the sulfur, burning bitumen, fetid квасцовых stones, the various deformed metal ores, a mix of water and fire, moving an avalanche, a smoke, ashes, disastrous sewage have unloaded a ridge of mountain.

Pompeii, Herculaneum, Octavianum, partially Retina and Portici, woods and country houses, and houses has in a flash scattered, has burnt, has destroyed, (stream) bearing all this before itself, as extraction in mad devastating triumph. Marble monuments have disappeared actually also, are deeply buried, the inquiring monument of Vice-king has really been destroyed. Emmanuel Fonseca and Zunica.
As memory of the sizes of human disaster, as well about the accepted measures on clearing of a stone rain and rescue completely each of our fellow tribesmen. Year of Redemption 1634. Prefect of road of Antonio Suares Messia." Torreomnia on Vesuvius

Edited by elcano, : No reason given.

Edited by elcano, : No reason given.

Edited by elcano, : No reason given.

Edited by AdminNosy, : shorten links


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AdminAsgara
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Message 2 of 132 (376776)
01-13-2007 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by elcano
01-13-2007 6:36 PM


Welcome elcano,

I'm not sure how you see this as a debate topic. Maybe you could explain just what it is you are wanting to discuss?


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    elcano
    Member (Idle past 1786 days)
    Posts: 60
    From: Moscow
    Joined: 01-12-2007


    Message 3 of 132 (376781)
    01-13-2007 6:48 PM


    All data on 14C are based on the assumption, that Pompeii were lost in 79 year.
    There are facts, that the city was lost on December, 16th, 1631.
    What is correctly?
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    AdminAsgara
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    Message 4 of 132 (376785)
    01-13-2007 7:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 3 by elcano
    01-13-2007 6:48 PM


    You didn't mention this at all in your opening post.

    If you want to discuss carbon dating maybe you could write a post that offers your hypothesis along with the facts you claim exist. Your facts should be easily accessible to the forum (in English if possible).


    AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe

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    This message is a reply to:
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    elcano
    Member (Idle past 1786 days)
    Posts: 60
    From: Moscow
    Joined: 01-12-2007


    Message 5 of 132 (376789)
    01-13-2007 7:25 PM


    Calibration of radiometric methods is spent on known historical dates. But there are facts confirming, that the date of destruction accepted today Pompeii not correct. One of the facts also is resulted by me.
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    Message 6 of 132 (377190)
    01-15-2007 1:13 PM


    Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
        
    RAZD
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    Message 7 of 132 (377200)
    01-15-2007 2:24 PM
    Reply to: Message 3 by elcano
    01-13-2007 6:48 PM


    Carbon-14 does NOT rely on vesuvius at ALL
    All data on 14C are based on the assumption, that Pompeii were lost in 79 year.

    Absolutely false.

    The current calibration curve for carbon-14 dating is discussed in detail at INTCAL04 TERRESTRIAL RADIOCARBON AGE CALIBRATION, 0–26 CAL KYR BP

    Please read the article and cite any reference to vesuvius.

    Carbon-14 dating is based on the radioactive decay of the atmospheric carbon-14 atoms taken up by living organisms while they were growing.

    Calibrations and verifications of the method are based on many sources, and the overall correlations are discussed in the above paper. Historical documents that are not exact on date are not good enough for this work, it is based on systems that produce known dates, such as annual tree-rings and the like.

    What you have is a fantasy. Whether you are open to being wrong is up to you, but I note:

    delusion  –noun
    1. an act or instance of deluding.
    2. the state of being deluded.
    3. a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.
    4. Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.

    The choice is yours.

    Enjoy.


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    This message is a reply to:
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    elcano
    Member (Idle past 1786 days)
    Posts: 60
    From: Moscow
    Joined: 01-12-2007


    Message 8 of 132 (377202)
    01-15-2007 3:03 PM
    Reply to: Message 5 by elcano
    01-13-2007 7:25 PM


    for Wepwawet

    If Pompeii were destroyed in 79 year why the city is resulted on maps tabula Peutingeriana (the fourth century),

    Ambrogio Leone's De Nola (1514), John Adams Library

    Ortelius (1570). http://memory.loc.gov/

    Edited by AdminAsgara, : changed long url to fix page width

    Edited by AdminNosy, : shorten links


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    elcano
    Member (Idle past 1786 days)
    Posts: 60
    From: Moscow
    Joined: 01-12-2007


    Message 9 of 132 (377208)
    01-15-2007 3:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by RAZD
    01-15-2007 2:24 PM


    Re: Carbon-14 does NOT rely on vesuvius at ALL
    For all archeological finds dated by time till 15 centuries, relative chronological scale is constructed on the assumption, that Pompeii was destroyed in 79 year. Measurements with use 14C are confirmed with these data +-100 years. However Pompeii were destroyed on December, 16th, 1631 (the inscription on a monument gives such date) and all relative chronologically a scale it is necessary to lead to this date. It is 17 century and a method 14C in this interval simply does not work.
    This message is a reply to:
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    Percy
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    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
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    Message 10 of 132 (377210)
    01-15-2007 3:35 PM
    Reply to: Message 8 by elcano
    01-15-2007 3:03 PM


    Hi Elcano,

    The remains of the ancient city of Pompeii were first discovered in 1592 by Domenico Fontana while constructing a water works project. This was several decades before the 1631 eruption.

    Modern excavations reveal the public buildings to be of 1st century Roman architecture, and temples of Apollo, Venus, Zeus and Isis have been found. The written language of inscriptions on buildings and monuments and preserved in wax tablets and graffiti is Latin. Pottery, tableware, etc., is consistent with 1st century Roman styles. There is nothing consistent with 17th century Italy.

    --Percy


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    CK
    Member (Idle past 1661 days)
    Posts: 3221
    Joined: 07-04-2004


    Message 11 of 132 (377211)
    01-15-2007 3:45 PM
    Reply to: Message 9 by elcano
    01-15-2007 3:29 PM


    Confused
    You might want read the following:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii

    I have no idea why you think Pompeii were destroyed on December, 16th, 1631. Do you have a source for such a claim? Do you think people were having a giant fancy dress party or something?


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    elcano
    Member (Idle past 1786 days)
    Posts: 60
    From: Moscow
    Joined: 01-12-2007


    Message 12 of 132 (377213)
    01-15-2007 3:58 PM
    Reply to: Message 11 by CK
    01-15-2007 3:45 PM


    Re: Confused
    There is a monument in Torre del Greco where date of destruction Pompeii is resulted.
    Toremnia on Vesuvius

    We have the following message.
    Luce iam sexta decimal Decembris; Sexdecim seclis pariter peractis:
    Atque sex lustris prope iam voluto Mensibus anno.
    Saxa ructantem glomerata flammis; Igne combustos cineres Veseuum
    Vidimus, circum penitus ruentem Ruraque, Villas.
    Igneus Naphthae fluuius recursat; Vnde Pompeios Populos, & agros
    Funditos vastat, ruit Herculanum, Et pecus omne.
    Motibus diris tremuere turres, Ictibus crebris quatiuntur aedes;
    Et cauernoso resonat boatu Vesubius ore. Giuliani Gianbernardino, 1632, Trattato del Monte Vesuvio e de' suoi incendi, Napoli – p.181
    http://mdz1.bib-bvb.de/...

    Date can be understood without text translation. The lost cities are mentioned.

    Edited by AdminAsgara, : fixed url length to fix page width

    Edited by AdminNosy, : shorten link


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    dwise1
    Member
    Posts: 2956
    Joined: 05-02-2006
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    Message 13 of 132 (377215)
    01-15-2007 3:58 PM
    Reply to: Message 9 by elcano
    01-15-2007 3:29 PM


    Re: Carbon-14 does NOT rely on vesuvius at ALL
    elcano writes:

    However Pompeii were destroyed on December, 16th, 1631 (the inscription on a monument gives such date)

    Please refer us to something that will tell us something about that monument and the complete text of what's written on it.


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    elcano
    Member (Idle past 1786 days)
    Posts: 60
    From: Moscow
    Joined: 01-12-2007


    Message 14 of 132 (377217)
    01-15-2007 4:14 PM
    Reply to: Message 10 by Percy
    01-15-2007 3:35 PM


    Yes there is channel Domenico Fontana (underground pass in length 1764 m. passing through all city) but why this gallery is under a surface of the dug out city. Possibly Domenico Fontana has lead the channel through alive city and has found the rests of more ancient Pompeii. The channel passes under the temples mentioned by you.
    This message is a reply to:
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    elcano
    Member (Idle past 1786 days)
    Posts: 60
    From: Moscow
    Joined: 01-12-2007


    Message 15 of 132 (377218)
    01-15-2007 4:24 PM
    Reply to: Message 13 by dwise1
    01-15-2007 3:58 PM


    Re: Carbon-14 does NOT rely on vesuvius at ALL
    The text from book Misson

    VIII.& LX. post annos XVII. Calend. Januaris, Philippo IV. Rege; fumo (дымиться); flames, boatu(рев), concussu(сотрясение), cinere (разрушать), irruptione, horrificus si unquam Vesuvius, nec nomen, nec faces tanti Viri extiruit. Quippe exardescente cuuis specubus igne; ignites, furens; irrugie; exitum eluctans coercitus aer, disjecto violenter Montis culmine, immani erupit hiatus postridie, ejaculatus trans Hellespontum cinerem, pone trahens ad explendam viam Pelagus, immite Pelagus, fluvios sulphureos flammatum bitumen, faetas alumina cautes, informe cujusque, metallic rudus, mixtum aquarum voluminibus ignem, ferventemque undante fumo cinerem, seseque, funestamque colluviem jugo Montis exonerans; Pompeios, Herculanum, Octavianum, perstrictis Reatina(m) & Portici, Sylvasque, Villasque, Aedesque momento stravit, ussit (сжигать), diruit (разрушать до основания); luctuosam prae se praedam agens, vastumque triumphum. Perierat hoc quoque Marmar alte sepultum, consultissimi Monumentum Proregis. Ne peraetat, Emmanuel Fonseca & Zunica Com. Mont. Reg. Pror. Qua(m) animi magnitudine publicae calamitati ea private consuluit, extractum funditus gentiles sui lapidem. Coelo restituit, viam restauravit, fumante adhuc & indignante Vesevo.
    An. Sal. (I) I)C. XXXIV. Praefecto viarum Antonio Suarez Messia March vici K IIJ

    Auteur(s) : Misson, Maximilien (1650?-1722)
    Titre(s) : Voyage d'Italie [Texte imprime] : ed. augm. de remarques nouvelles et interessantes / par Maximilien Misson
    Publication : Amsterdam : Clousier, 1743
    "Voyages en Italie" - http://gallica.bnf.fr/


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