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Author Topic:   Re: Substantiating The Validity Of Bible Prophecy
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 119 (342197)
08-21-2006 11:42 PM


In the ongoing Lebanon War/Prophecy thread Sidelined proposed the following challenge. Since an adequate response would have been too off topic for that thread, I've opened this thread for the purpose of accomodating Sideline's challenge with not just one but several of many which could be used.
sidelined writes:
Prophecies that have been fuliiled are debatable at best and piles of shit at worst. But what would be really , really, really significant would be if someone could take one of the prophecies and tell us exactly what and how something is going to occur before the fact rather than interpret the "prophecy" to fit after the fact.
Are you willing to do this or not buz? Is anyone you know willing to do this or not?
1. I've been doing this for 50 years since I first got interested in studying the Biblical prophecies. For example, the weekend before the Israeli/Arab block 6 day war, everyone knew it was going to happen.......20 million enemy against 2 million Jews involving all the surrounding nations of tiny Israel. Russia, quite powerful then supplied these nations with arms including mig fighters. Nasser of Egypt headlined that Israel was going to be "driven into the sea." My athiest friend/neighbor was quite confident that Israel was going to be soundly defeated. I assured him that Israel would win the war based on Bible prophecy. Well in six days, there the air forces of these nations were obliterated on the ground and burned out tanks littered the Sinai between Egypt and Israel. Things were about as bad on every front as Israel pre-empted on them.
2. I've been prophecying ever increasing global warming and catastrophic weather via it for decades based on Bible prophecies while most of my conservative friends in and out of church have been debunking it. Global warming and all that comes with it is ongoing with the effects of it causing more serious and frequent global disasters.
Young members and possibly some of the older as well will live to see a significant ever increasing incidence of drout, polution of the waters likely both by missile poisoning and natural phenomena , drying up of streams and rivers, et al. Every five years should register a noticeable worsening of drout and other effects of global warming if I am correct in assumption that we are indeed in the apocalyptic end times which these things are prophesied for.
For some global warming/drout prophecies check out the following references:
A. Revelation 16:3-8. Verse 8 says men will suffer greatly from the heat and the other verses imply stagnation of the waters.
B. Revelation 7:1 prophesies a time when the winds don't blow. No wind, no rain.
C. A number of references to a partial darkening of the sun and a blood red moon imply ever increasing cloudy and stagnant skies with much evaporation and little rain. This, imo, will be a factor in preparing the atmosphere for perfect weather for the messianic millenium. Two examples of references to this are Rev. 6:12 for the NT and Joel 3:15. There are others in both the OT and NT. Jesus in the accounts of the famous Olivet Discourse also mentions as happening before the rapture i.e. the gathering of his elect from earth to heaven.
3. I am prophecying on the basis of Biblical prophecy that the Western powers including the US will diminish in power and influence. Russia and the Islamic fundy nations of the Mid East and North Africa will emerge to be the predominant world influence and military powers of the world with the blessings and support of the UN. Western nations will be reduced to whining and complaining about what these powers are doing around the world.
4. I have already predicted the likely nuking of Vatican City by either a communist nation or a radical Islamic nation here at EvC and I hold to that on the basis of my understanding of Revelation 18 and 19.
5. As for truce in Lebanon and the region around Israel, as I understand the prophecies, there will be one eventually established which will last about 3 1/2 years before Armageddon and then break down with an invasion of Jerusalem by Israel's enemies with the blessings and resolution of the UN. This is when the 2nd advent of Jesus occurs and the Armageddon happens with the Jerusalem defended but not before the city is invaded and with part of the city ravished and many killed or taken captive. At this time the Euphrates will be dried up and a huge army from the East, likely including China will move into the war. The enemies of Israel will become all be competing for dominance with them turing against one another. The slaughter will be greater of all these armies than anything in human history with the region littered with the dead of many nations.
There you have it and likely the non-Christian younger folks here who survive all the terrible latter day catastrophies will live to see the end. That's how near I see the end time prophecies play out. I could be mistaken, but I don't think so. The Christians who survive the tribulation, i.e. global holocaust of Christ's elect/saved will be sometime before Armageddon caught up out of the world by his angels as per the Olivet discourse recorded in Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13.
I will try to furnish Biblical references upon request for those who want any others than given.
I would like for this to go in The Bible: Accuracy and Inerrancy forum if another admin wishes to promote it. Thanks.
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by anglagard, posted 08-22-2006 2:43 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 4 by ringo, posted 08-22-2006 3:18 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 6 by ikabod, posted 08-22-2006 3:48 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 7 by CK, posted 08-22-2006 6:13 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 8 by CK, posted 08-22-2006 7:24 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 9 by RickJB, posted 08-22-2006 7:39 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 16 by Legend, posted 08-22-2006 3:54 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 17 by MangyTiger, posted 08-22-2006 4:02 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 18 by MangyTiger, posted 08-22-2006 4:12 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 21 by Omnivorous, posted 08-22-2006 4:45 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 54 by Archer Opteryx, posted 08-23-2006 3:53 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 111 by sidelined, posted 09-02-2006 11:59 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 112 by sidelined, posted 09-02-2006 12:01 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 117 by imageinvisible, posted 12-17-2007 5:30 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 118 by imageinvisible, posted 01-02-2008 3:19 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 119 (342224)
08-22-2006 1:04 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 865 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 3 of 119 (342236)
08-22-2006 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
08-21-2006 11:42 PM


The Prophecy of Uniformitarianism?
This should be fun, I'll take the easy one first.
C. A number of references to a partial darkening of the sun and a blood red moon imply ever increasing cloudy and stagnant skies with much evaporation and little rain.
As to the first, I must agree, solar and lunar eclipses have happened in the past, and I prophicize, will happen in the future. Isn't this a bit too uniformitarian for a fundamentalist?
As to the second, much evaporation at one spot will, I predict, lead to much precipitation in another.
The thing that most puzzles me is why you and those of your ilk have such a red-hot passion for calamity.
Of course, maybe the world ended in 1843 like the 7th day people said (originally) and us non-7ths are just too stupid to realize it.
Edited by anglagard, : grammar (i think)
Edited by anglagard, : spelling prophecize is a bear, i guess i'm just not very good at it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 08-21-2006 11:42 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 4 of 119 (342241)
08-22-2006 3:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
08-21-2006 11:42 PM


Buzsaw writes:
... the air forces of these nations were obliterated on the ground....
... burned out tanks littered the Sinai between Egypt and Israel.
... Israel pre-empted on them.
So, a sneak attack.
Kinda like John Wilkes Booth prophesying the death of Abraham Lincoln.

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This message is a reply to:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2290
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 5 of 119 (342242)
08-22-2006 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by anglagard
08-22-2006 2:43 AM


Re: The Prophecy of Uniformitarianism?
As to the second, much evaporation at one spot will, I predict, lead to much precipitation in another.
Yes those great bible prophets predicted... weather!!! How astounding.

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

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ikabod
Member (Idle past 4522 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 6 of 119 (342250)
08-22-2006 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
08-21-2006 11:42 PM


Russia and the Islamic fundy nations of the Mid East and North Africa will emerge to be the predominant world influence and military powers of the world with the blessings and support of the UN.
i think this is very very unlikley ...given the state of russia ..its internal decay both militry and civilian ... if you read the info coming out its clear russia is in a long transistional phase , colapse is the more likely prospect .. but us / western money will prop it up ... .
as for the ME and NA if you look at many of the nations they are going to fight each other as much as the west , and they are very dependant on the west for arms and technology . look at the poor showing of the Iraq army in a convensonal combat situation .
a better perdiction would be a decline in the UN 's status .. it has failed so many times .. more usa / euro lead actions .. and china lead .. acting alone is going to become comman

This message is a reply to:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4156 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 7 of 119 (342271)
08-22-2006 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
08-21-2006 11:42 PM


quote:
I have already predicted the likely nuking of Vatican City by either a communist nation
Cuba? Why would they nuke the Vatican? What other communist nature could you mean?
quote:
At this time the Euphrates will be dried up and a huge army from the East, likely including China will move into the war. The enemies of Israel will become all be competing for dominance with them Turning against one another.
China is like the old USSR in that it's would be unable to sustain a supply chain on such an expedition beyond a couple of months (if even that long - during the cold war, the projections for the USSR was that the supply chain would break down within six weeks of the start of a conventional war). It's a totally unlikely scenario.
Plus you totally discounting the growing economic influence of both china and india. In the next century, China will be able to reach it's objectives via economic means.
quote:
Russia and the Islamic fundy nations of the Mid East and North Africa will emerge to be the predominant world influence
What makes you think that Russia is going to be a "predominant world influence"?
Edited by CK, : No reason given.
Edited by CK, : add additional detials.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4156 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 8 of 119 (342279)
08-22-2006 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
08-21-2006 11:42 PM


Further about Vatican city
quote:
4. I have already predicted the likely nuking of Vatican City by either a communist nation or a radical Islamic nation here at EvC and I hold to that on the basis of my understanding of Revelation 18 and 19.
So I should cancel the trip I planned to vatican city to buy some goats and sheep? Can you recommend somewhere else to pick up some myrrh and frankincense?

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RickJB
Member (Idle past 5019 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 9 of 119 (342285)
08-22-2006 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
08-21-2006 11:42 PM


So with your amazing powers of prediction can you tell us exactly when the "endtimes" will come?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 08-21-2006 11:42 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 119 (342287)
08-22-2006 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by CK
08-22-2006 7:24 AM


Re: Further about Vatican city
Actually Revelations 18 & 19 seem to be refering to the United States and not Vatican City, and perhaps to Los Angeles, City of the Angels.
The whole idea of getting Revelations 18&19 to equate to Vatican City would just be something to laugh at if it were not for the fact that for the first time in history it is possible for someone deluded enough to believe this sillyness to actually do something stupid that might lead to a nuclear war.
Revelations 18&19 is pretty clear. It is talking about Rome, not Vatican City and using a comparison to Babylon. It is a political tract dealing with the political and economic events of 1800 years ago, another pseudo historical story that gives us a glimpse of what the political writers of the period were saying with their propaganda.
If on the otherhand you want to try to take a piece of political propaganda written to apply to 1800 or so years ago and misapply it to the current situation, then the US would be the Babylon of Rev 18&19.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 11 of 119 (342324)
08-22-2006 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by RickJB
08-22-2006 7:39 AM


"true bible Codes" have predicted to the exact day. (they have been wrong a few times already)
From The Present Fulfillment of 1 Kings 18:43-44
quote:
The UN in Midtown Manhattan will be hit by a sea borne nuclear bomb on the Jewish Sabbath between Sundown Friday August 25th and Sundown Saturday August 26th
This last sabbath date is August should now be correct, according to 1 Kings 18, since Elijah told his attendant to go back and look for a man made mushroom cloud 7 times during a festival after the first no show during a festival, giving 8 attempts during festivals in all...
43 And he said to his attendant/boy [to those under his authority in the church, or those who attend the website, whilst doing a mushroom to the earth]: Go up [Celebrate the passover a second time, the late passover, since he did the mushroom in the sign of Jonah letter of 2006Iyyar1, after the first passover], now/please [)n]. Look in the direction of the sea ['Sea' is genitive here, being the absolute of a construct. The word 'Sea' only appears once in the account, so it means sea, or large river - BDAHCL. Look in the direction of the sea from Midtown where we celebrated the late passover i.e. look eastwards (i.e. to the mid east or far east) for a nuclear bomb striking the UN from the sea or from a great river, presumably the East river on 2006Iyyar21, our first incorrect date for such an event, it being 7 days after the late passover]. So he went up [to the late passover in NYC, at the Edison Hotel 47th street and Broadway] and looked [for said event on 2006Iyyar21, a sabbath, and our first incorrect date for this coming event] and then said: There is nothing at all [There was no terrorist attack on 2006Iyyar21. The attendant said this to Gordon in a church conference call on 2006Iyyar22]. And he went on to say, Go back, 7 times [look 7 more times in the direction of the sea during a festival] (1 Kings 18).

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Replies to this message:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 12 of 119 (342330)
08-22-2006 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by ramoss
08-22-2006 9:46 AM


A lot of poetic license with 1 Kings 18:43 at that site!
I don't think there is any pastime as worthless as Bible prophecy, it is just ludicrous because anyone can essentially make any event fit something in the Bible. There's also all this crap about symollism, and that many biblical verses don't actually mean what they say.
When the servant went back the 7th time he saw a cloud as small as a man's fist rising out of the sea, hardly a freakin trident missle is it?
Brian.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 13 of 119 (342355)
08-22-2006 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Brian
08-22-2006 10:04 AM


That is what I think all the prophecy is. If something is vague enough, it can be made to fit ANYTHING. You either have things vague enough that it will 'come to pass' many many times.. or you have an event, and people work towards that event... then claim the bible predicted it.

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RickJB
Member (Idle past 5019 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 14 of 119 (342387)
08-22-2006 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by ramoss
08-22-2006 9:46 AM


Wait a minute! Isn't today the day that Ahmadinejad's nukes are meant to herald the return of the Hidden Imam of the Shi'a?

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CK
Member (Idle past 4156 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 15 of 119 (342393)
08-22-2006 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by RickJB
08-22-2006 12:49 PM


I think you are right!

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