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Author Topic:   So difficult to keep up! (Re: Memeber of the religious right running morally amuck)
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 1 of 221 (427613)
10-12-2007 8:40 AM


It just gets stranger and stranger and more and more hypocritical.
This one just made me say "Wow" over and over again.
Source
You know, when a conservative Christian minister, graduate of Liberty University, and friend of Jerry Falwell is found dead under these circumstances .
Clothing: The decedent was received wearing two (2) wet suits, one scuba diving mask, one pair of diving gloves, one pair of slippers, one pair of rubber underwear, two (2) ties, five (5) belts, eleven (11) straps.
Personal Effects: One yellow metal ring intact on left ring finger, one dildo.
. you know that somehow, somewhere, someone is going to blame the liberals.
Although I think Mrs Tilton has the right response ” it's a shame and a waste that someone spent a life sanctimoniously denouncing people just like him. If he'd been a godless liberal, maybe he would have joined a club, been a little happier, had a lot less self-loathing, and still be alive today.
But man, two wetsuits? A little moderation in all things is a wise dictum.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added "(Re: Memeber of the religious right running morally amuck)" part to the topic title.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-12-2007 8:50 AM nator has not replied
 Message 3 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-12-2007 9:41 AM nator has not replied
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 10-12-2007 10:44 AM nator has not replied
 Message 191 by riVeRraT, posted 10-17-2007 11:03 AM nator has not replied
 Message 207 by Phat, posted 10-19-2007 11:55 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 59 of 221 (427773)
10-12-2007 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
10-12-2007 11:02 AM


Re: Conservative Blogs tell a different story
quote:
Its not normal to want to indulge in anal sex.
LOLOL!!!!
I suppose it isn't normal to want to engage in oral sex, either, right?
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 10-12-2007 11:02 AM Phat has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 60 of 221 (427774)
10-12-2007 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
10-12-2007 12:30 PM


Re: Anal sex
quote:
Bad experiences with males and/or Fathers?
If bad experiences with men make women lesbians, then how come all women who are raped or otherwise abused by men don't all become lesbians?
Does this mean that men who are gay have bad experiences with females/their mothers?
Really, Phat, you need to join the current century WRT sex and psychology. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 10-12-2007 12:30 PM Phat has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 61 of 221 (427776)
10-12-2007 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Rahvin
10-12-2007 4:15 PM


Re: Conservative Blogs tell a different story
quote:
Not everyone is like you, Phat, and anyone who is different has not necessarily been abused in the past. hell, it's not even likely.
Actually, childhood sexual abuse is very common, especially among girls.

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 143 of 221 (428225)
10-15-2007 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Hyroglyphx
10-13-2007 9:40 PM


Re: Conservative Blogs tell a different story
Its not normal to want to indulge in anal sex.
quote:
I don't think it is either, but in order to be persuasive to an irreligious group you can't give moral reasons because their version of morality is so flexible that it can justify what ever it desires.
Is it normal to want to engage in oral sex?
Is it natural for a woman to want to engage in sex at all?
quote:
What once naturally repulsed people has now become more acceptable through desensitization and over-exposure to such practices.
The idea that women could, and even should, actually enjoy sex "naturally" repulsed people. "Wanton" women were considered disgusting, morally bankrupt, a dangerous influence, and unfit mothers.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-13-2007 9:40 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2007 7:05 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 144 of 221 (428226)
10-15-2007 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Hyroglyphx
10-14-2007 3:06 AM


Re: Conservative Blogs tell a different story
But less so than the mouth. And yet, nobody really seems to think that oral sex is unnatural.
quote:
Yes, but with fellatio no one is vigorously moving so that cuts would occur.
Er, Juggs?
What about the teeth?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-14-2007 3:06 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 145 of 221 (428230)
10-15-2007 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Hyroglyphx
10-14-2007 3:06 AM


Re: Conservative Blogs tell a different story
quote:
Vaginitis or urinary infections can be caused by multiple things. (Especially since a penis doesn't go inside the urethra.
What, you've never heard the term "Honeymoon Disease"?
What that term refers to is the very prevalent occurence in women to get numerous, frequent UTI's after a sudden increase in sexual activity.
I got three of them in the first two months of my marriage, with the third leading to a nasty, painful kidney infection.
Happens to lots and lots of women.
Funny how you don't call that "Straight Women's Nympho Disease" or something perjorative.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-14-2007 3:06 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 146 of 221 (428231)
10-15-2007 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by macaroniandcheese
10-14-2007 7:41 PM


Re: Sex abuse v. rape
quote:
having been groped and raped, i no longer see the difference between the two.
Somebody shoves you so that you have to balance yourself in a couple of steps.
Somebody punches you in the face repeatedly, and so hard that your nose is broken, a couple of teeth are knocked out, and you get a concussion.
Do you see any difference between the two?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-14-2007 7:41 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2007 3:42 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 148 of 221 (428235)
10-15-2007 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by macaroniandcheese
10-15-2007 3:42 PM


Re: Sex abuse v. rape
quote:
being randomly grabbed in a crowded nightclub.
being groped by your friend's dad in her bedroom after church.
do you see the difference?
Yes.
The former is a stranger doing something inappropriate, but it is a public place, and you can take action by involving the bouncer or the police. Presumably, if you are in a nightclub, you are also an adult, and the "perp" is someone roughly in your own age group. Also, sexual tension and display is expected to be present in a nightclub so people in attendance would likely be prepared for such behavior.
The latter is in secret, a trusted parental figure, in his house (both factors tip the power dynamic), is much older (also tips the power dynamic), and is the father of your friend (which makes calling attention to the situation very difficult, becasue you don't want to hurt her), and (if I assume correctly) the victim of abuse was underage or at least very young, therefore tipping the power dynamic again.
Now, why don't you answer my question?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2007 3:42 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2007 4:01 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 150 of 221 (428241)
10-15-2007 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by macaroniandcheese
10-15-2007 4:01 PM


Re: Sex abuse v. rape
quote:
for me, the circumstances of my rape brought the same issues and questions as that second scenario. therefore, to me, they were the same. the violation felt the same and i felt equally powerless.
If someone is traumatized by a sexual assault in her past, it may certainly influence her reactions to any future unwanted contact that she perceives as sexual. But that doesn't make all unwanted contact equivalent.
The adult in the nightclub and the kid(?) getting molested by her friend's dad in a bedroom in his house weren't actually equally powerless, for the reasons I mentioned.
The analogy I was attempting to draw with the single shove and the severely damaging punching is that they are both a form of assault, but they differ in order of magnitude that is obvious to anyone looking from the outside.
Similarly, someone, for example, grabbing my ass in a crowded nightclub is certainly unwanted, but it is NOT equivalent to being forcibly, penetratively raped, even though I may have strong emotional reactions to each event.
They are physically different in order of magnitude regardless of my reaction to the events. That is obvious.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2007 4:01 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2007 4:29 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 152 of 221 (428247)
10-15-2007 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by macaroniandcheese
10-15-2007 4:29 PM


Re: Sex abuse v. rape
You wrote:
quote:
having been groped and raped, i no longer see the difference between the two.
There's a difference, regardless of how you feel about it.

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 Message 151 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-15-2007 4:29 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 154 of 221 (428261)
10-15-2007 6:07 PM


...and another one!
source
Brown County Republican Party chairman faces sex charges
Fleischman's attorney denies allegations
By Andy Nelesen
anelesen@greenbaypressgazette.com
The chairman of the Republican Party in Brown County faces criminal charges for allegedly fondling a 16-year-old Ethan House runaway and providing the boy with beer and marijuana late last year.
Donald Fleischman, 37, of Allouez, was charged last month with two counts of child enticement, two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a child and a single charge of exposing himself to a child.
He was summoned to Brown County court for his initial appearance on Sept. 28. He is free having posted a signature bond as his promise to return to court.
Fleischman's lawyer, Jeff Jazgar, said he plans to confront the charges at the preliminary hearing set for Oct. 29. He declined to discuss specifics of the allegations.
"My client is innocent of the charges," Jazgar said Friday. "Our plan is to get some witnesses to testify and present enough information to dismiss the case.
Efforts to reach Fleischman were unsuccessful Friday.
Green Bay police went to Fleischman's Goodell Street home Nov. 19, 2006, looking for two runaways from Ethan House, a juvenile facility on nearby Emilie Street, according to the criminal complaint filed Sept. 7.
Fleischman opened the door and allowed officers inside where they found a 16-year-old boy hiding on the floor of a walk-in closet wearing only underwear and a T-shirt, the complaint said.
Officers found a black, purple and blue-swirled glass pipe in the living room, which tested positive for marijuana residue, the complaint said.
Police returned to Fleischman's home on Dec. 8, 2006, and found the boy there again. He had been a runaway from Ethan House for eight days.
The teen, now 17, told authorities Fleischman took him to a hotel in Appleton during that time and then to a cabin near Florence for several days before returning to Fleischman's Allouez home. The boy said Fleischman provided him with beer and marijuana, the complaint said.
The boy told police that when he would go to bed, Fleischman would fondle him and that on one occasion he awoke to find Fleischman at the foot of his bed masturbating.
Detectives obtained the boy's drug tests from the days around the time he spent with Fleischman, and three samples from late November and early December tested positive for marijuana.
Fleischman has resigned his post with the Brown County Republicans, said Kirsten Kukowski, communications director for the Republican Party of Wisconsin.
Efforts to confirm Fleischman's resignation with local leadership were unsuccessful Friday.
If convicted on both felonies and all three misdemeanors, Fleischman faces 52 years in prison.

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 162 of 221 (428381)
10-16-2007 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by crashfrog
10-16-2007 12:55 AM


Re: Conservative Blogs tell a different story
I read a story on one of the bleeding heart liberal blogs. I know it might be made up, but I don't think so.
Ann Coulter would be proud of this guy, I'm sure.
The thing I'd like to point out is that you simply don't hear of Liberals doing this kind of thing. Like, ever.
Another thing I'd like to point out is that when you do hear about this sort of thing, the wingnuts are always calling people "faggot". You go to the hatemail archive of any liberal blog and it is remarkable to note how all-pervasive the invective "faggot" is. Again, you just don't see that sort of thing coming from the Liberals hardly ever.
But no, conservatives aren't bigots. Of course not.
Source
Bump Off
So I’m driving home today to pick up lunch. We live about five minutes from campus by car. I turn onto the road before our street, which often gets a lot of traffic. A pickup truck comes up fast behind me (I’m driving ten mph over the speed limit already, and the road is fairly curvy and narrow, with no shoulders, blind turns and no passing lanes.)
The truck is tailgating me. No, scratch that. Tailgaiting is too ordinary a description for what he was doing. I haven’t really seen anything like this before. He is about six inches behind me, at 45 mph. I kid you not. I gradually slow before the left turn into my home street simply because if I brake any more abruptly, he is guaranteed to rear-end me. I turn. He turns behind me, keeping his close distance, and then suddenly lurches around me to the left on our small residential street, swerving wildly around me at around 50 mph and almost losing control of his truck. Our driveway comes up, I turn left into it, shaken. He jams on the brakes at the stop sign that’s about 75 feet from our driveway, coming to a tires-smoking halt. I get out of my car and stare at him in amazement.
He goes into reverse and starts screaming at me. I can’t really hear it except for a lot of f-bombs until he gets close. I yell back, “Why were you tailgating me like that? I was already going well over the speed limit!”
He’s now right in front of my driveway. Older guy-55? 60? Big walrus mustache, grey hair, relatively slight build, but kind of tough-looking.
“BECAUSE YOU’RE A FUCKING FAGGOT, FUCKER! YOU FUCK! I SHOULD HAVE FUCKING HIT YOU! I SHOULD HIT YOU NOW!” He goes on in that vein for a bit.
I’m honestly kind of taken aback. I’ve seen bad drivers, I’ve been given the finger (and given it on a few occasions), but I have no idea what’s eating this guy. I was almost expecting to hear that I had done something on the road and not noticed it. But here I am on my own lawn, on my own street, and there’s a man who actually seems like he’s going to hop out of his car and attack me. I haven’t been in a serious fight since the eighth grade, but I’m pretty much ready to fight if this guy tries to come at me on my own property. On the other hand, I’m consciously thinking, this guy pretty much almost killed me with his car: I can hardly count on him coming out of there with just his own fists if that’s the way this is going to go.
I yell back when he stops for air, “What is your FUCKING problem? What did I do to you?”
He leans out to point at my car bumper. Which is entirely unadorned except for a Kerry-Edwards sticker from 2004.
“YOU FAGGOT YOU VOTED FOR THAT WAR CRIMINAL. I’M GOING TO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF YOU.” Guy is turning a shade of purple. I don’t think he’s just putting on a show. He actually sped up, nearly rammed with his car at high speed and is now seriously contemplating attacking me over a bumper sticker. I’m so astonished that I’m speechless. He looks at me, looks at the house, and I think he’s noticing that there’s another car there and therefore maybe someone who is going to call the cops if something happens. Plus, I’m thinking the same thing myself, and getting out my cell phone. Machismo be damned: we just entered psycho territory. He pulls away and speeds off, yelling all the while. I spend about ten minutes kind of trembling as the adrenaline drains away.
So much of the rage out there in the public sphere strikes me as phony or compensatory that it can be jaw-dropping, at least for me, to find out that there is anyone in all the world who will go beyond writing nasty comments at wingnut blogs or calling talk radio.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by crashfrog, posted 10-16-2007 12:55 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 165 of 221 (428529)
10-16-2007 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Hyroglyphx
10-16-2007 4:41 PM


Re: Conservative Blogs tell a different story
Juggs, if you have the time, I'd appreciate a reply.
Thank you!
Message #143
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2007 4:41 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 167 of 221 (428579)
10-16-2007 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Hyroglyphx
10-16-2007 7:05 PM


Re: Conservative Blogs tell a different story
quote:
Only when going outside of defined parameters.
Not really.
At certain times in the not-so-distant past, "nice", proper women were not supposed to like sex. It wasn't considered natural.
Women who openly wanted sex, even within a marriage, were considered abnormal and unseemly. There were entire books written about why it wasn't natural.
The point is, Juggs, that what you consider normal, i.e. "It's normal to want physical and sexual contact with members of the opposite sex." was NOT considered normal for women at certain times in the past, and it was just an arbitrary rule that helped to maintain the social and cultural status quo and had NOTHING to do with "naturalness".
You likely think that this idea that society had was misguided, and that you know better now.
Can't you see that your rule is just as arbitrary?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2007 7:05 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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