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Author Topic:   So difficult to keep up! (Re: Memeber of the religious right running morally amuck)
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 25 of 221 (427689)
10-12-2007 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by macaroniandcheese
10-12-2007 9:41 AM


Nope. Not a chin dildo.
It was in his rectum, covered by a condom.
You can find the coroner's report at:
Dead Reverend's Rubber Fetish | The Smoking Gun
ABE: O crud. I really need to read the whole thread before I post.
Edited by molbiogirl, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-12-2007 9:41 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 27 of 221 (427691)
10-12-2007 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
10-12-2007 11:22 AM


Anal sex
Phat, I'm not going to bother refuting your supposition that a willingness to engage in anal sex means that, as a boy, the good reverend was raped.
Let's just walk through the implications of your idea.
Gay men are around 5% of the population.
That means 5% of the (supposedly) straight fathers/uncles/what-have-you in this country raped children.
Does that sound plausible to you?
And what about our poor, bereft lesbians?
No anal rape for them.
What turned them to the dark side?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 10-12-2007 11:22 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 10-12-2007 12:30 PM molbiogirl has replied
 Message 31 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-12-2007 12:42 PM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 34 of 221 (427716)
10-12-2007 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
10-12-2007 12:30 PM


Where do homos come from?
I would argue, however, that homosexual behavior is a choice irregardless of inclinations.
When did you choose to be straight?
There are a plethora of studies that show there are genetics factors and epigenetic factors that determine one's sexuality.
Not to mention the intrauterine factors that occur during fetal development.
Bottom (hah!) line: sexuality is not a choice.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-12-2007 3:26 PM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 35 of 221 (427717)
10-12-2007 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by macaroniandcheese
10-12-2007 12:42 PM


Re: Anal sex
if we trust the last source, i think it is quite safe to say that 5% of so called straight men have raped a child.
1 in 7 is hardly 5%. It's 14%.
Are you suggesting that less than half of the boys that have been raped "choose" to be gay?
namely, maybe only in the west does abuse and rape contribute to homosexuality.
Anthopological studies have shown that the rate of homosexuality is nearly constant cross-culturally.
Are you suggesting that child-rape is constant cross-culturally?
Re: data on child-rape.
It is well documented that adult M/F rape is vastly underreported.
What makes you think that child-rape stats are reliable?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-12-2007 12:42 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-12-2007 3:32 PM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 38 of 221 (427721)
10-12-2007 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by macaroniandcheese
10-12-2007 3:26 PM


Brenna, that was a reply to Phat.

This message is a reply to:
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 42 of 221 (427728)
10-12-2007 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by macaroniandcheese
10-12-2007 3:32 PM


Cross cultural causes
just because the rate is the same doesn't necessarily mean that the causes are the same.
Brenna, the fact that the rates are cross-culturally similar suggests a genetic cause.
Otherwise you are stuck with, "Well, lots of different cultural factors play into sexuality but they all tend to cause a 10% homosexuality rate."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-12-2007 3:32 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-12-2007 3:53 PM molbiogirl has replied
 Message 67 by Dr Jack, posted 10-13-2007 6:36 AM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 48 of 221 (427737)
10-12-2007 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by macaroniandcheese
10-12-2007 3:53 PM


Re: Cross cultural causes
what about instilled institutions of such bahaviors?
I think it's a reach to speak of "institutions" when referring to cross-cultural research that includes hunter-gatherers.
Our enthnocentric view of "gender" and "sexuality" is limited, at best.
Gendering History and Anthropology/Third Sex, Third Gender: Beyond Sexual Dimorphism in Culture and History.
Current Anthropology, Vol. 36, No. 4. (Aug. - Oct., 1995), pp. 709-711.
Contrary to the still prevalent idea that our sex and gender order is natural, eternal, and universal, this work contributes mightily to the breakdown of such ahistorical and ethnocentric arguments by furthering Thomas Laquer's excellent historical work in Making Sex. As there was once, Laquer argues, a transition from a one- sex model to a dual model for sex and gender ideology, Third Sex, Third Gender may now be challenging us to move beyond the limitations of our dualistic thinking. Our vision remains too limited by what we think we see: simple vision, therefore, prevents accurate vision.
There are societies that recognize 3 "genders": male, female, and "other" (gay men and women).
This is evidence that a genetic predisposition toward same-sex relations is recognized by non-Western societies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-12-2007 3:53 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 52 of 221 (427742)
10-12-2007 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by RAZD
10-12-2007 4:29 PM


Re: Hands tied?
I thought about that too.
But it's possible (tho elaborate) to hog tie yourself.
Just loop the rope around your neck, bind your wrists in front of you, bind your ankles, then slip your wrists behind you.
But it does smell of consensual play with a partner.

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 75 of 221 (427899)
10-13-2007 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Dr Jack
10-13-2007 6:36 AM


Re: Cross cultural causes
Are rates of homosexual behaviour really similar cross-culturally? Do Sparta, Fuedal Japan and Rome really have similar levels of male-male sexual behaviour to post-war Britain? I find I very unlikely. Do you have data?
Forgive me, Mr. Jack.
I neglected to note that I am speaking of modern times.
And it's been years since I finished my Anthropology degree, but if you feel strongly enough, I will take the time to do the research.

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 Message 67 by Dr Jack, posted 10-13-2007 6:36 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by bluegenes, posted 10-13-2007 2:21 PM molbiogirl has replied
 Message 121 by Dr Jack, posted 10-14-2007 7:32 PM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 76 of 221 (427900)
10-13-2007 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by macaroniandcheese
10-13-2007 9:52 AM


Sex abuse v. rape
do you dispute this? cause that's cute.
Brenna, I think Mr. Jack raises an important concern.
Sex abuse can mean anything from inappropriate touching to rape.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-13-2007 9:52 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-13-2007 10:17 PM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 78 of 221 (427906)
10-13-2007 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by bluegenes
10-13-2007 2:21 PM


Re: Cross cultural causes
Surveys would require equal honesty in all cultures, and I don't see how that could be guaranteed.
The work I would look into would be anthropological, not sociological.
In other words, participant observer studies, not surveys.

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 Message 77 by bluegenes, posted 10-13-2007 2:21 PM bluegenes has replied

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 85 of 221 (427970)
10-13-2007 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by macaroniandcheese
10-13-2007 10:17 PM


Re: Sex abuse v. rape
it may not be "intercourse" but sexual violation is sexual violation. i promise you.
It's common sense that different degrees of sex abuse mean different things.
Your contention was that child-rape had an effect on a man's sexual orientation.
Is it the same for a lesser form of abuse, say, fondling?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-13-2007 10:17 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-13-2007 10:53 PM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 86 of 221 (427971)
10-13-2007 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Hyroglyphx
10-13-2007 9:40 PM


Re: Conservative Blogs tell a different story
And whether someone uses protective measures or not will not ameliorate the damage to the rectum, plus it increases the likelihood of the condom tearing. Aside from which, latex condoms do not provide adequate protection as is. The microscopic pores in a latex condom is approximately 50 times larger than the average spermatozoa. And the AIDS virus is 450 times smaller than the average sperm, thus only providing nominal protection.
As Brenna pointed out, this isn't supported by the CDC evidence.
Perhaps you'd care to show us evidence to the contrary?
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a940506.html
straightdope.com writes:
Mike Roland, (wrote a letter to the) editor of Rubber Chemistry and Technology, a publication of the American Chemical Society.
Roland argued that "the rubber comprising latex condoms has intrinsic voids [pores] about 5 microns (0.00002 inches) in size. Since this is roughly 10 times smaller than sperm, the latter are effectively blocked.... Contrarily, the AIDS virus is only 0.1 micron (4 millionths of an inch) in size. Since this is a factor of 50 smaller than the voids inherent in rubber, the virus can readily pass through."
This sounds scary, but there are a couple problems with it.
First, Roland bases his statement about a 5 micron latex pore size on a study of rubber gloves, not condoms.
The U.S. Public Health Service says that condoms are manufactured to higher standards than gloves.
Condoms are dipped in the latex twice, gloves only once. If just 4 out of 1,000 condoms fail the leak test, the whole batch is rejected; the standard for gloves is 40 out of 1,000. A study of latex condoms by the National Institutes of Health using an electron microscope found no holes at a magnification of 2000.
Aside from diseases and infections, anal sex poses a risk of gay bowel syndrome, which is largely denied by the homosexual population, but nevertheless exists.
A clinical pattern of anorectal and colon diseases encountered with unusual frequency in these homosexual patients is termed the gay bowel syndrome. The clinical diagnoses in decreasing order of frequency include condyloma acuminata, hemorrhoids, nonspecific proctitis, anal fistula, perirectal abscess, anal fissure, amebiasis, benign polyps, viral hepatitis, gonorrhea, syphilis, anorectal trauma and foreign bodies, shigellosis, rectal ulcers and lymphogranuloma venereum.
All of which is preventable thru condom use.
Edited by molbiogirl, : glove v. condom

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 91 of 221 (427988)
10-14-2007 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by macaroniandcheese
10-13-2007 10:53 PM


Re: Sex abuse v. rape
From Message 40:
the presence of the one does not nulify the other. one source of non-strictly-heterosxual behavior is likely innate desire. another source may be factors that affect the ability to trust and be close to certain people.
It seems you are suggesting that trust (and broken trust due to sexual abuse of some sort) is related to sexual orientation (not-strictly-heterosexual).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-13-2007 10:53 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-14-2007 12:20 AM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2672 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 92 of 221 (427989)
10-14-2007 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Rrhain
10-13-2007 11:35 PM


A quibble
The link to the paper on "gay bowel syndrome" doesn't mention prolapse.
Just ...
hemorrhoids, nonspecific proctitis, anal fistula, perirectal abscess, anal fissure

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Rrhain, posted 10-13-2007 11:35 PM Rrhain has replied

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