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Author Topic:   A proof against ID and Creationism
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 13 of 300 (245639)
09-22-2005 1:35 AM


Sadly the answer is quite easy
Though your post is elegent, you are WAY overestimating creationists / IDrs.
The response to your question falls into two simple variations of the same response.
1) The Blank Stare.
2) The Frown.
Both of which are followed by - "Nah uh! My book is right about everything, even the stuff it's wrong about!"
I refuse to accept facts or theoriest that disprove this book in any way. I don't want these theories taught to anyone else either.
And thus the cycle continues.

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-22-2005 1:40 AM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 21 of 300 (246034)
09-23-2005 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by New Cat's Eye
09-22-2005 1:40 AM


Re: Sadly the answer is quite easy
DEfinitely blank stare

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-22-2005 1:40 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 73 of 300 (246867)
09-28-2005 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by david12
09-28-2005 2:01 AM


Welcome David12
Welcome to the boards.
You raise a lot of questions which have been raised elsewhere on the boards several times (and will be raised again several more).
You may be able to find the answers to all your questions by simply looking a little deeper. However, I for one know how daunting that task is. The boards are pretty expansive and it's often hard to find what you're looking for.
I'll try to point you in the right directions.
I am arguing for creation, not for any religion in particular. I just want to put to test the creation by God, or the evolving of everything we see today. Also, I am not taking the position that the world was created in 7 actual days.
We call this possition - Old Earth Creationist
1. Where is the "actual" fossil evidence of creatures in-between species?
Here's the most recent thread about Macro/Micro
EvC Forum: When micro = macro ...
how do you justify evolution when the Law of Entropy and the Law of the conservation of matter have been scientifically proven?
These laws deal with closed systems. The earth is not a closed system. Sunlight beams down on earth 24/7/365. That energy into the system. There can be no entropy in a system which experiences constant input of energy. Likewise, conservation of matter.
3. How did the first components that "created the first cells" get there?
This topic is abiogenisis - life from not life. It's an interesting topic, but it's not really important to Theory of Evolution. Evolution takes over once life exists. How life got there, not important to the Theory.
4. The evolution of the eye.
This is the Irreducably Complex argument. "How can something have evolved if the pieces need to work together?"
The problem is that this argument doesn't fit the eye. Flatworms have eyes which are simply light sensitive cells, no lens, no pupil, no orb, etc. Many many creatures have eyes less suitable than our own, many many have eyes better than our own. The eye as an organ varies greatly. Not all the components are needed for an eye to work. The eye is not irreducably complex.
Is it not feasable to conclude that the earth and its
inhabitants have a creator too?
Your computer has a creator, but that doesn't mean that the rock in your garden has one. You may believe that the rock was created by God, but it can not be deduced from looking at the creations of man.
One such emotion, that I do not see has a "natural selection" value is love.
There is one goal of Evolution which is more important than any other - Produce Offspring. Everything else is secondary.
"Love" as a human emotion is very much a part of natural selection.
Can you look into their eyes and tell me that they were just some mistake? That the people that you hold dear to you are just random assortments of chance and stuff and it is just from apes to man that they are who they are?
There's no reason to see evolution as a mistake. It's not logically inconsistant to believe in God and ToE or even that God set up the rules that govern ToE. You could further draw from that that God set up the rules that govern ToE with the supreme knowledge that it would all eventually lead to you, your wife, your child, etc.
God's existance isn't really a "scientific" question. Science can't answer it, therefore science doesn't try.
What science can do is look at the data and describe the rules. And, what the data describes is Evolution through natural selection.
Hope that helps you get the wheels turning, and welcome aboard.
(by use "Peek Mode" to see how people do quote boxes)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by david12, posted 09-28-2005 2:01 AM david12 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by david12, posted 09-28-2005 10:28 PM Nuggin has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2522 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 85 of 300 (247141)
09-28-2005 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by david12
09-28-2005 10:28 PM


Re: Welcome David12
How is this topic not important to the theory of Evolution? We are all here to find out where we came from, how it all started. So if you go back to how it all started, how did those first components get there? How would the space even be there for something to be created in? There needs to be a master, something that started it all.
I'm not saying it's not an important question. I'm just saying that the Theory of Evolution doesn't care how life began, it kicks in after that point.
Some theories of how life started: Abiogenisis, God, Comet carrying life, Aliens, etc. Theory of Evolution works the same no matter which of these is the cause.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by david12, posted 09-28-2005 10:28 PM david12 has not replied

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