A proof against ID and Creationism

Scientists prove the existence of the Creator everyday. The very fact that humans are able to comprehend (not just our environment) our universe is in itself proof that life has purpose. Creation, Language,
Loving, Thinking, the list goes on...are all human similarities (connections) to the Creator. Science is about seeking truth. It is the child seeking truth that is connected to the Creator. It is the scientist that cannot prove that G-d doesn't exist.The world is a reflection of the most brilliant beautiful mind ever, with a purpose that includes revealing His/Her abilities to others by letting others replicate these traits inside a fixed environment.This message has been edited by Menachem, 01-23-2006 12:55 AM

RE: "You might look at the work of scientists and believe that it proves the existence of a creator."True.The universe is expanding - it is creating something from nothing!This message has been edited by Menachem, 01-22-2006 09:10 PMThis message has been edited by Menachem, 01-24-2006 12:47 AM

Is it possible to expand something while not increasing size? Is it possible to increase size without increasing volume?Mass: The property of a body that causes it to have weight in a gravitational field.If you think of the universe as an expanding body of mass, then where does the body dwell? Mass is irrelevant when it comes to expansion - it is size and volume that matter. If the size of the universe is not increasing then we cannot use the word "expanding."Expand: Extend in one or more directions.

You cannot use a balloon as an example of the universe. The universe is not (as we know) bound by the effects of this earth. The universe has no thunderstorms to come against it - thunderstorms are a part of the universe - not outside it. Infinity is only just being realised by humans. Technology has shown us that this world is not as limited as we used to think.

On the contrary, your argument actually confirms my belief. You give an example of a balloon that has atmosphere around it to expand or shrink inside of - What outer atmosphere does the universe exist in to expand and shrink inside of?This message has been edited by Menachem, 01-22-2006 11:33 PM

Can you see what I am trying to say?Everything in this universe (generally speaking) has room to move around. The universe itself must also have room to move around in if it is true that it can expand and shrink.

Those threads are brilliant.Think how small we are in comparison to the universe. In addition to my spiritual knowledge (of lack of time limits and spacial distance) this allows me to stand in awe at the brilliant world we have been given. The fact that this world (telescopes, infrared etc.) allows us to observe the universe is a proof that we have purpose. To say that we have all of this knowledge for no reason except survival (our lives are so short) is to say that every positive thing we do is futile (and all we do is not for you or I but for some future generation that may never exist.) Can you not see that your brilliant mind contains an understanding that surpasses most humans. How can you honestly think that your knowledge of the universe is a result of an "evolutionary" (as opposed to ID) process that allowed you to comprehend this stuff. It is clear to me that we all have purpose.Scientists are actually promoting ID through true science. It is when scientists claim "proofs" against ID that they are only fooling themselves. You cannot describe the complexity of the universe to a Creationist or IDist without "putting legs onto the wood to make a firm table (confirming belief in ID.)"The truth is, the Creator wants us to appreciate this universe. There are no other creatures besides humans on the planet with this understanding! NOT ONE! Everything (animals, foods, medicine, the sun, moon etc.) is here for YOU. It is true for every individual to say, "the world was created for me!"

I totally agree that ID can never replace Scientific Discovery.This message has been edited by Menachem, 01-24-2006 12:27 AM

My message has been removed by me because it doesn't fit into "sound logic." as described by Admin.This message has been edited by Menachem, 01-24-2006 12:30 AM

RE: "You probably think you sound very clever".Of course I don't think that I sound clever. I probably do sound like a know-it-all though. I have never claimed to know everything.Unlike the people you usually refute - I speak truth.I have told everyone that I am a simple person. It is you who is trying to sound clever, by denying my truth for no reason.

Actually, this topic was called "Proof against ID and Creationism."This message has been edited by Menachem, 01-24-2006 12:09 AM

I was just about to fix that.So Science is about recreating the created without recognising the Creator's Design and then claiming it ALL to be chance - this is in my opinion NOT "sound logic."This message has been edited by Menachem, 01-24-2006 01:00 AM

stay on topic, as defined in Message 1

Why do we need males and females to reproduce? Why the separation between the masculine and the feminine in the most intelligent creatures on the planet?Asexual: Reproduction which doesn't involve gamete exchange with others.Also, according to gays and lesbians - the opposite sex is obsolete.What would happen if suddenly (ie. some virus) only males were born from females? Is it scientifically possible that this could occur? Is there any way that human males can reproduce without human females or vice-versa?What is the probability of a planet that contains all of the building blocks for human life and enjoyment (from food and medicine to "state of the art" equipment like computers allowing us to communicate on separate sides of the world) just appearing by chance - for no higher reason?A monkey will never become a human even with an eternity of evolution - it will always be a monkey, doing only the things that a monkey can do - whether they be similar to humans or not - they will never be human.To disagree with this is in my opinion - NOT "sound logic."This message has been edited by Menachem, 01-24-2006 03:46 AMThis message has been edited by AdminNWR, 01-24-2006 07:01 AM

Let's get one thing clear. Evolution is one (and probably the best) explanation of the origin of species. Do not for one second think that evolution changes the Hebrew account of the creation one bit - it only leaves out the missing links - "Divine Intervention" and "Purpose".

The Hebrew account of creation is the perfect order of appearance of the physical things. Science just confirms this in detail. The "techniques" of creation are unknown to us. The Hebrew account tells us that not all things evolve by themselves - that there is "Divine Intervention" for a purpose greater than just "survival of the fittest" - such as the fashioning of the human to the man we see today.The Hebrew account says that we are still in the 6th (and final creation period) time period. It is ALL for the enjoyment/pleasure of the 7th time period when the Creator will rest because we will have unlimited enjoyable things to do.HaKol Le'Oneg Shabbat!By the way, how come not one scientist can explain where females come from?