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Author Topic:   Questions about the living cell
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 2563 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


(1)
Message 121 of 182 (527918)
10-03-2009 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Dr Jack
10-03-2009 10:00 AM


Re: Cancer and the true cross
Because God has a sadistic sense of humor?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Dr Jack, posted 10-03-2009 10:00 AM Dr Jack has not yet responded

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2561 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 122 of 182 (528107)
10-04-2009 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Dr Jack
10-03-2009 10:00 AM


Re: Cancer and the true cross
Wow, you really think that laminins are little crosses put there by God to demonstrate his wonder, don't you? I'm... baffled at how someone can buy into something so obviously absurd.

Absolutely. The 2,000 yr old text says that all things are held together by God's Son, the one who died on the cross and His symbol is connecting every living thing on earth. It's pretty obvious it wasn't coincidental.

You feel that way because you do not know the Lord. Had you known Him or seen His power as we Christians have (at least, some of us) then you wouldn't be saying things like that.

No matter how Laminin appears though the microscope in its function in living cells it is always diagrammed like this:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Dr Jack, posted 10-03-2009 10:00 AM Dr Jack has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Dr Jack, posted 10-04-2009 2:03 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded
 Message 124 by SammyJean, posted 10-04-2009 2:24 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded
 Message 127 by Otto Tellick, posted 10-08-2009 5:43 AM Calypsis4 has not yet responded
 Message 172 by Evlreala, posted 10-10-2009 12:50 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3500
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


(2)
Message 123 of 182 (528108)
10-04-2009 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Calypsis4
10-04-2009 1:58 PM


Re: Cancer and the true cross
So you do believe your God ties his symbol up with cancer! What a charming chap he is.

No matter how Laminin appears though the microscope in its function in living cells it is always diagrammed like this

What? Are you serious? The electron micrograph is what it actually looks like! All diagrams are just simplified representations.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Calypsis4, posted 10-04-2009 1:58 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

  
SammyJean
Member (Idle past 1420 days)
Posts: 87
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 03-28-2009


(1)
Message 124 of 182 (528113)
10-04-2009 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Calypsis4
10-04-2009 1:58 PM


Re: Cancer and the true cross
Calypis4 writes:

Absolutely. The 2,000 yr old text says that all things are held together by God's Son, the one who died on the cross and His symbol is connecting every living thing on earth. It's pretty obvious it wasn't coincidental.


Where in that 2,000 yr old text does it say that the "cross" is his symbol?


"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts." -Albert Einstein

"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief."
~ Gerry Spence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Calypsis4, posted 10-04-2009 1:58 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1213
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 125 of 182 (528186)
10-05-2009 4:55 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Theodoric
10-02-2009 4:35 PM


Pentagrams and pentagons
Do you see the blue shapes? Those are pentagrams.

It's a bit of a nitpick, but those aren't pentagrams. They're just pentagons. A pentagram is a five-pointed star, whereas these are just five-sided shapes (in tge diagram, anyway).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 10-02-2009 4:35 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 10-05-2009 5:29 AM caffeine has not yet responded

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 448 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 126 of 182 (528190)
10-05-2009 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by caffeine
10-05-2009 4:55 AM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Here are some natural pentegrams:

People believe what they want to believe. It is called pareidolia. Look it up.


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by caffeine, posted 10-05-2009 4:55 AM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 10:13 AM DevilsAdvocate has responded

  
Otto Tellick
Member
Posts: 288
From: PA, USA
Joined: 02-17-2008


(4)
Message 127 of 182 (529072)
10-08-2009 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Calypsis4
10-04-2009 1:58 PM


Re: Cancer and the true cross
Calypsis4 writes:

The 2,000 yr old text says that all things are held together by God's Son, the one who died on the cross and His symbol is connecting every living thing on earth. It's pretty obvious it wasn't coincidental.

And if you arrange the original Hebrew letters of the Old Testament (which are known to have been meticulously counted and kept track of in every copy ever made) in particular ways and assign numbers to them, you can pick out all sorts of prophetic information that predicts things that have happened between the original writing and the present day. That really is not coincidental either.

It's also not valid or sensible, let alone being "predictive" in any plausible or meaningful sense. It's simply a matter of arranging arbitrary symbols into appealing patterns, and then relating particular meanings to those patterns. People do this sort of thing all the time -- it's a natural human trait, involving innate human abilities (pattern recognition, symbolic logic, etc). Astrology is another prime example. I would put your assertion of religious symbolism in cell structure right up there with astrology.

Do you believe in astrology? How about reading the future in the entrails of dead animals? (That at least has something of biology in it.) If not, why not? Perhaps because you recognize that such "predictions" are too vague or vacuous or too often wrong to be of any practical use? Asserting the presence of religious symbols in biological structures is on a par with (indistinguishable from) that. Honest.

You feel that way because you do not know the Lord. Had you known Him or seen His power as we Christians have (at least, some of us) then you wouldn't be saying things like that.

You started this thread with three "questions about the living cell," requesting both opinion and fact for the answers. Over the course of your subsequent posts here, you have demonstrated that your main interest is not to actually find answers to these questions in any sort of factual manner, but rather to put an end to any attempt to answer them except through the assertion and acceptance of religious dogma. No observational evidence, and no theory based on observation, should be accepted unless it conforms to your doctrine. Even posing more detailed questions is off-limits, if pursuing answers could lead to a threat of transgression.

It's not even sufficient in your view that people should simply abandon science and adopt any religious belief of their own choosing (in accordance with the notion of religious freedom -- I assume you must be positively dead-set against any such notion). No, in your view, there can be only one way to refuse to answer these questions, and that is through the acceptance of Your Lord Jesus Christ as our savior -- and on top of that, we'd better interpret the biblical text exactly as you do, or we will never attain the correct avoidance of real answers to these questions.

In other words, your agenda here is to promote a specific brand of willful ignorance. Okay, we get that. Now, when are you going to get that trying to promote ignorance in a science forum is really a waste of time? People who have a sincere curiosity about how nature works will not accept "God did it" as an answer, because that really doesn't answer the questions that come up.

No matter how Laminin appears though the microscope in its function in living cells it is always diagrammed like this...

I'm sure that must be false. I haven't looked at all the biology books ever published, but surely some of them would make it clear that the diagram you posted has actually put the thing sideways, or possibly upside-down.

And since there are so many nice pictures in these threads of yours, I can't resist putting one in. (I shamelessly stole this from http://scienceblogs.co.../my_regrets_on_your_traumatic_b.php -- it just happened to show up today, and seemed especially appropriate for your dogmatic approach to biology... indeed, it strikes me as positively non-coincidental!)

Edited by Otto Tellick, : minor spelling repair


autotelic adj. (of an entity or event) having within itself the purpose of its existence or happening.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Calypsis4, posted 10-04-2009 1:58 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

  
greyseal
Member (Idle past 1209 days)
Posts: 464
Joined: 08-11-2009


(2)
Message 128 of 182 (529095)
10-08-2009 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 7:16 PM


Re: Laminin Shaminin
drive by commenting, but IS there a piece of scripture that says that the cross in particular is

a) a sign of god
b) stamped into every cell somehow

or are you just blowing hot air?

I fail to see why christianity - a relatively new interloper on the stage - should be considered the one true religion over the obvious power and might of Zeus and the Caduceus - especially when it looks far more like the Greek one.

Anybody care to estimate which legend predates the other?

(the Caduceus is at least 2500 years old, so 500 more than the juvenile new testament)

Edited by greyseal, : added a date.

Edited by greyseal, : stupid formatting error


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 7:16 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2561 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 129 of 182 (529120)
10-08-2009 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by DevilsAdvocate
10-05-2009 5:29 AM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
People believe what they want to believe. It is called pareidolia

But none of those examples were preceded by an ancient text telling mankind that by the God of such symbols 'all things are held together'.

Colossians 1: 16-18 preceded the discovery of Laminin by 2,000 yrs.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 10-05-2009 5:29 AM DevilsAdvocate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 10-08-2009 12:30 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded
 Message 131 by SammyJean, posted 10-08-2009 12:36 PM Calypsis4 has responded
 Message 134 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 10-08-2009 12:49 PM Calypsis4 has responded

    
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 448 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(3)
Message 130 of 182 (529143)
10-08-2009 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 10:13 AM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
And where do you see God saying in this scripture that the sign of a cross (which by the way is a instrument of torture and death used by several civilizations in antiquity) is what holds cells together?

Colossians 1:15-18 writes:

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

It says that God not the cross is what holds everything together.

This is not an extrapolation of scripture. It is an outright fabrication. God even condemns those who add to or take away from his word.

Revelations 22:18-19 writes:

If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 10:13 AM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

  
SammyJean
Member (Idle past 1420 days)
Posts: 87
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 03-28-2009


Message 131 of 182 (529145)
10-08-2009 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 10:13 AM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Draw the diagram a little different:

Looks like this:

An Ankh, the Ancient Egyptian symbol for life.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 10:13 AM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 12:47 PM SammyJean has responded

    
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2561 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 132 of 182 (529148)
10-08-2009 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by SammyJean
10-08-2009 12:36 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Draw the diagram a little different:

Nope. You're just stretching things like the others.

Besides that, as I have challenged them I challenge you to come up with an ancient text of scripture outside the Bible that teaches that the 'god' they believe in holds all things together and that his symbol is the very thing that does this.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by SammyJean, posted 10-08-2009 12:36 PM SammyJean has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by mark24, posted 10-08-2009 12:49 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded
 Message 135 by SammyJean, posted 10-08-2009 1:13 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
mark24
Member (Idle past 2542 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


(1)
Message 133 of 182 (529150)
10-08-2009 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 12:47 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Nope. You're just stretching things like the others.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 12:47 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 448 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(2)
Message 134 of 182 (529151)
10-08-2009 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 10:13 AM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Here are some pictures of the protein laminan that should dispel this laminin=cross=God myth.

laminin-10 in colon cancer metastasis

Electron microscopic structure of agrin and mapping of its binding site in laminin-1 (which is the journal articlewhere the original pic of laminin = cross came from)

Protein complex (nidogen-laminin) obtained by experimental procedure X-ray (left picture) and predicted with Molfit (right picture).

Only to the scientific illterate and pseudoscientific inclined can you derive that lamininun is a religious icon.


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 10:13 AM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 1:14 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

  
SammyJean
Member (Idle past 1420 days)
Posts: 87
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 03-28-2009


Message 135 of 182 (529157)
10-08-2009 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 12:47 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Nope. You're just stretching things like the others.

I'm stretching things? If I'm stretching things it's because I learned it from you, oh master of stretching things!

_____________________

You never answered my question here: Message 124
Greyseal asked it again here: Message 128

Where in the scripture does it say the the "cross" is gods symbol?


"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts." -Albert Einstein

"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief."
~ Gerry Spence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 12:47 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
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