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Author Topic:   Questions about the living cell
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2594 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 106 of 182 (527766)
10-02-2009 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Theodoric
10-02-2009 1:45 PM


Re: Topic please!!!
Any chance of getting back to the topic and a little less preaching and proselytizing??

We never left it. You just don't like to talk about Laminin. Why is that, Mr. skeptic?

Ok you can name drop. How about telling us who they, their field of expertise and what they actually said.

I sure can. I can give you a lot more than that. But if I did as you suggested would it make any difference to those who are emotionally committed to a lie?

Nope.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Theodoric, posted 10-02-2009 1:45 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Theodoric, posted 10-02-2009 4:14 PM Calypsis4 has responded

    
Dman
Member (Idle past 2398 days)
Posts: 38
Joined: 02-26-2009


(1)
Message 107 of 182 (527778)
10-02-2009 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 3:27 PM


Re: How forum works
If 'nature did it' is an error and that 'God did it' is an error, then what options are left? Please explain.

The truth is left to be found in that case.

What you are doing is setting up a false dichotomy, where you attempt to show that nature cannot create such and such protein, and blah blah, so therefore it had to have supernatural origins. BUT you have yet to show the supernatural origins.

I have no problem with you proving that nature can't create what you claim in your OP. But I will not accept your unproven alternative (poof) as the default answer.

Why don't you try being honest with those with whom you differ with? I didn't 'hand wave' away anything so frivolously as you suggest.

Sure looked like it to me. Your whole argument reeks of personal incredulity. You haven't actually shown why nature could NOT do what you say it can't. You just don't see how, which means very little in proving that it can't.

I did a lot of reading and research on this subject and I've done a lot more since I tossed out evolution.

And what did you find? My guess is not very much, because this sort of thing is still in it's infancy. Science will always need to answer questions about any particular theory. Throwing out a scientific theory because new questions are flowing in and have yet to be fully answered, is anti-science, unintelligent and wholly ignorant. just my opinion, you don't have to like it.

Reasoning like yours just makes that decision that much stronger.

What reasoning? Letting science answer science questions?

Now, tell the readers why 'poof' is not scientific. Do it by empirical investigation.

Really? More dishonesty to bamboozle the masses?

For the same reason astrology is not scientific.

Explain why all the hundreds of examples living fossils (fast growing toward thousands) is not evidence against biological evolution

I read your other thread on this and it made me chuckle. Although this is off topic I'll reply anyway.

Living fossils are a prediction of the ToE. The prediction being, we should see little change in the fossil ancestors of living species that have gone through very little or no change in environment. And guess what? WE DO. Just another confirmed prediction of the ToE.

Now. If you want this argument to work, go and find a living species with ancestors that lived in a vastly different environment, and show little to no change. Run along.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 3:27 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 4:18 PM Dman has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5751
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 108 of 182 (527781)
10-02-2009 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 3:32 PM


Re: Topic please!!!
You just don't like to talk about Laminin. Why is that, Mr. skeptic?

You mean your argument about laminin looking like a cross was a serious argument?
Ok. So did laminin look like something else before the supposed crucifixion of this guy who supposedly existed that you call jesus? Did it change then or did your god create it knowing sometime he would have his son executed on the cross? If it always looked like this, was this pre or post that Adam guy and his woman?

In all seriousness. It takes a vivid imagination to see a cross in the laminin. As others have pointed out there are structures that look like any manner of shapes. Pentagrams and swastikas to point out two. Why are they not relevant?

I sure can. I can give you a lot more than that. But if I did as you suggested would it make any difference to those who are emotionally committed to a lie?

Nope.

So we can just throw that argument out. I'll tell you what, any argument you wont back up with at least a sliver of evidence I will just ignore. Lets see that leaves. No, no, no,. Hmm nothing with any evidence yet.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 3:32 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 4:20 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2594 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 109 of 182 (527782)
10-02-2009 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Dman
10-02-2009 4:08 PM


Re: How forum works
The truth is left to be found in that case.

Not for us.

BUT you have yet to show the supernatural origins.

That's because I cannot create anything. No one can. It comes down to final options. Since the natural world cannot create itself, it had to have a source outside of the phsyical to create it.

The living fossils reveal the stasis that God placed in all organisms and fit under the category of the 'law of kind' as mentioned in Genesis.

Sure looked like it to me. Your whole argument reeks of personal incredulity.

Only to those who have never experienced the supernatural.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Dman, posted 10-02-2009 4:08 PM Dman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Dman, posted 10-02-2009 4:32 PM Calypsis4 has responded

    
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2594 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 110 of 182 (527785)
10-02-2009 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Theodoric
10-02-2009 4:14 PM


Re: Topic please!!!
You mean your argument about laminin looking like a cross was a serious argument?

I would say, "Gosh, you're catching on slowly," but alas, you're only nit picking.

Have fun posting the other forum members.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Theodoric, posted 10-02-2009 4:14 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 10-02-2009 4:35 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
Dman
Member (Idle past 2398 days)
Posts: 38
Joined: 02-26-2009


(2)
Message 111 of 182 (527789)
10-02-2009 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 4:18 PM


Vague vague and more vague
quote:
The truth is left to be found in that case.

Not for us.


I'm not following. You said that if both options were wrong, what is left. So you would purposely chose a wrong answer over searching for the real one? Weird.

That's because I cannot create anything. No one can. It comes down to final options. Since the natural world cannot create itself, it had to have a source outside of the phsyical to create it.

Wait. What? I thought we were talking about proteins and the like. You know, biology.

But the bottom line is, if you can't show your alternative to be possible, it isn't an alternative....

Only to those who have never experienced the supernatural.

You just aren't getting it. So you claim to have experienced the supernatural. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt, and except that the supernatural really exists (or whatever). BUT have you experienced a cell being supernaturally created??? No, you haven't, and you need to, to use the reasoning above. Just because (for arguments sake) the supernatural realm exists, does not mean it created the first so-and-so protein. You need to show that it did, which is EXACTLY what you are asking the opposition to do, when they say it was done naturally. Please be fair and apply your very own standards to your position. Or stop the special pleading altogether.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 4:18 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 4:35 PM Dman has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5751
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 112 of 182 (527792)
10-02-2009 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 4:20 PM


Re: Topic please!!!
I would say, "Gosh, you're catching on slowly," but alas, you're only nit picking.

Have fun posting the other forum members.

I will take this as your admission that you have no responses to the points made. If you are not willing to debate and support the points YOU presented in the op, why do you bother posting? I and numerous others have repeatedly asked you to stay on topic and to provide some sort of evidence.

Again, one more time I will ask and then I guess if you don't answer I will have may answer that you have no evidence. All you have is preaching and proselytizing.

Why is laminin so special because it might be construed as resembling a cross, but other things like potassium channels in nerve cells that look like swastikas have no relevance? Or how about DNA itself.

There are just as many (if not more) Satanic (or otherwise evil) shapes in the human body. Consider this: DNA is the molecule that contains all the information that determines who you are. Here is a simplified drawing of the detailed structure of DNA, getting rid of the helical shape and just concentrating on what makes up the backbone of the molecule:
ImageHost.org
Do you see the blue shapes? Those are pentagrams. They represent the sugar ribose that makes up the backbone of DNA. Indeed, “ribose” is what gives DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) the “ribo” in its name. Thus, the molecule that makes the backbone of DNA and gives it part of its name is a Satanic symbol. What does that mean?

Source

DNA should be more highly regarded than laminin shouldn't it?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 4:20 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Lithodid-Man, posted 10-02-2009 7:22 PM Theodoric has not yet responded
 Message 125 by caffeine, posted 10-05-2009 4:55 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2594 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 113 of 182 (527793)
10-02-2009 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Dman
10-02-2009 4:32 PM


Re: Vague vague and more vague
You just aren't getting it. So you claim to have experienced the supernatural.

No, it is YOU that is not getting it. Not even close.

I would love to discuss the supernatural but I have been warned twice to stay on topic and I am tying.

Living fossils destroy evolution: utterly. My opponents are not being honest about this very clear-cut issue. That is because they are all emotionally committed to a fabrication called 'evolution.'


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Dman, posted 10-02-2009 4:32 PM Dman has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Theodoric, posted 10-02-2009 4:42 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5751
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 114 of 182 (527798)
10-02-2009 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 4:35 PM


Re: Vague vague and more vague
Living fossils destroy evolution: utterly. My opponents are not being honest about this very clear-cut issue. That is because they are all emotionally committed to a fabrication called 'evolution.'

Could you at least keep your arguments straight? On this thread we are supposed to be talking about cells, not living fossils. Please address that topic here and living fossils on the other thread.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 4:35 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2594 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 115 of 182 (527831)
10-02-2009 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Dr Jack
10-02-2009 1:44 PM


Re: Laminin Shaminin
Clearly, denying the symbolism in how the b1 and b2 chains (dare I say snakes) wrap around the central staff, mirroring the Rod of Hermes and demonstrating Zeus's power on earth. All praise Zeus!

You are not being honest with me nor with yourself.

Observe this:

This is the classic painting of Moses & the brazen serpent.

The symbols of paganism are a counterfeit of the true faith and its symbols. Jesus Christ is the co-Creator with the Father and this world is His. His symbol is on every single cell in the entire world just as the divine scriptures teach it.

Now IF you can offer a scripture from the pagan holy books that teach that Zeus's symbol is on each cell then do so.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Dr Jack, posted 10-02-2009 1:44 PM Dr Jack has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Meldinoor, posted 10-03-2009 3:49 AM Calypsis4 has not yet responded
 Message 120 by Dr Jack, posted 10-03-2009 10:00 AM Calypsis4 has responded
 Message 128 by greyseal, posted 10-08-2009 8:24 AM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 116 of 182 (527832)
10-02-2009 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Theodoric
10-02-2009 4:35 PM


Re: Topic please!!!
Theo writes:

Why is laminin so special because it might be construed as resembling a cross, but other things like potassium channels in nerve cells that look like swastikas have no relevance? Or how about DNA itself.

Nice post! The whole laminin thing is bizarre, I have seen several of Louie Giglio's talks about it, great showmanship and little else. Besides the molecules that look like other symbols one has to ask how many ways can a few linear objects be put together?

One thing that I think is even funnier is that the typical cross used to symbolize Christianity is tradition, not Biblical. We do not know what the shape of the crucifixion instrument was that Jesus was tacked to (assuming it happened). The word used throughout the gospels is 'stauros' which refers to a simple pole that was a very common crucifixion device during that time. Arguments have been made that stauros could also refer to a cross, which may be true but hardly conclusive. I know off topic, but laminin related (could be an interesting topic?).


Doctor Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which were true and which weren't?"
Elim Garak: "My dear Doctor, they're all true"
Doctor Bashir: "Even the lies?"
Elim Garak: "Especially the lies"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 10-02-2009 4:35 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
slevesque
Member (Idle past 2021 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 117 of 182 (527871)
10-03-2009 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by cavediver
10-02-2009 6:08 AM


Re: One vs. Two tailed lipids
I hope Mr. Jack will give us some feedback on this, cause that video sure is intriguing.

it almost seems as I could try it in my kitchen lol (with the right ingridients)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by cavediver, posted 10-02-2009 6:08 AM cavediver has not yet responded

  
Meldinoor
Member (Idle past 2189 days)
Posts: 400
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 02-16-2009


(3)
Message 118 of 182 (527882)
10-03-2009 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 7:16 PM


Re: Laminin Shaminin

When was that picture painted?
Which do you think inspired the other? The Rod of Hermes, which has been a symbol for thousands of years? Or your picture, which was painted much more recently and is the artists interpretation of a vaguely described object in scripture?

Calypsis, it seems to me that your main argument in this thread is the following:

"Since nobody knows how life originated, it must have been created."

Now, nobody knows how life originated (except you), we'll admit that. You have a point, good job. What most of your co-debators in this forum are trying to ask you is: "Why does this constitute evidence of a creation?"

Just because science can't answer your question at present, what makes you think it never will? And even more importantly: What gives your explanation precedence when their is a gap in scientific knowledge? Why not go by any other religious doctrine of creation? Why go by any at all?

You are the one making a claim here Calypsis. Nobody else is. The best we can offer you are suggestions as to how life might have originated. You claim certainty. Therefore, you must provide evidence for your claim. Until you can provide evidence for a supernatural creation, no one here will take you seriously.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 7:16 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
mark24
Member (Idle past 2576 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


(1)
Message 119 of 182 (527893)
10-03-2009 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 3:29 PM


Re: Facts?
Calypsis,

Yet another pointless post that fails to address what you are replying to.

By your own standard evolution is demonstrated. You can stop with the strawman argument re: living fossils now.

Mark


There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 3:29 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3500
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


(2)
Message 120 of 182 (527912)
10-03-2009 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 7:16 PM


Cancer and the true cross
Wow, you really think that laminins are little crosses put there by God to demonstrate his wonder, don't you? I'm... baffled at how someone can buy into something so obviously absurd. I'd hoped pointing out both how tenuous that link is, and how easily one could project a similarity onto a molecule, you'd see that. Oh well.

Okay. Let's accept laminins look just like crosses, and only crosses and no molecule in the body could possibly be taken as looking like any other symbol.

So why did God choose to display his wonder in a molecule critical to the formation and spread of cancer1?

1 Marinkovich, P. (2007) Laminin 332 in squamous-cell carcinoma Nature Reviews Cancer vol. 7 no. 5, p.370-380 (abstract)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 7:16 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Izanagi, posted 10-03-2009 10:20 AM Dr Jack has not yet responded
 Message 122 by Calypsis4, posted 10-04-2009 1:58 PM Dr Jack has responded

  
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