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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
RAZD
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Posts: 19665
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1216 of 1266 (842391)
10-30-2018 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1209 by creation
10-30-2018 12:55 PM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
You are defeated by your inability to show your claims anything more than biased and belief based hooey.

Hardly. Ignoring evidence does not make it disappear, nor does it explain the correlations.

Tree ring age is documented by the annual tree rings that show characteristic growth patterns for the various seasons.

These ages can be validated by cross-checking between chronologies and by correlations with other events of known age. Early growth rings can be compared to late growth rings to show the consistency of the characteristic growth patterns for the various seasons.

These comprise a large set of objective, empirical evidence for actual age, not belief.

The correlations with historical events and other chronological systems validate the accuracy of the measured time, and they are also based on objective empirical evidence to support them.

You on the other hand believe in a magic time in the past, but have not presented any objective empirical evidence to support your claim.

You are defeated by your inability to show your claims anything more than biased and belief based hooey.

The irony is amusing.

Certainly in school we should teach students to be skeptical of claims, and to test them by seeing if there is evidence to support the claims. If there is evidence, that lends some credence to the claim, but if there is no evidence then the claim is unsupported and has little credence.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1209 by creation, posted 10-30-2018 12:55 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1219 by creation, posted 10-31-2018 1:47 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19665
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 1217 of 1266 (842392)
10-30-2018 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1208 by Porkncheese
10-30-2018 9:14 AM


Re: The atheist biologist issue ...
I'll try again to lay out my points on why Dawkins comes across as suspicious to me from an agnostics perspective

That is one person, not all biologists.

You can say the same about other atheist that are not biologists.

You cannot say the same about other biologists that are not atheists.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1208 by Porkncheese, posted 10-30-2018 9:14 AM Porkncheese has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1246 by Porkncheese, posted 11-03-2018 8:13 AM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19665
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1218 of 1266 (842393)
10-30-2018 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1210 by creation
10-30-2018 12:58 PM


Pedagogy and what should be taught in school
Not all that is taught in schools is science. This is news? Even the stuff that is taught as science filled with belief.

There are comparative religions courses for example. They might deal in spirits in some way. For example the spirit that Mohamed spoke to. Nothing to do with natural only limited little science! How about sex ed? History..etc etc? It is not all science.

No, but it all involves a cognitive framework for learning that is based on logic, objective information, facts and fact finding. Basically you want to teach students how to identify good information from bad, how to reach valid conclusions from information available, and how to learn valid knowledge.

quote:
Pedagogy (/ˈpɛdəˌɡɒdʒi/) (most commonly understood as the approach to teaching) refers more broadly to the theory and practice of education, and how this influences the growth of learners. Pedagogy, taken as an academic discipline, is the study of how knowledge and skills are exchanged in an educational context, and it considers the interactions that take place during learning. ...

The pedagogy adopted by teachers shape their actions, judgments, and other teaching strategies by taking into consideration theories of learning, understandings of students and their needs, and the backgrounds and interests of individual students.[3][4] Its aims may include furthering liberal education (the general development of human potential) to the narrower specifics of vocational education (the imparting and acquisition of specific skills).

Instructive strategies are governed by the pupil's background knowledge and experience, situation, and environment, as well as learning goals set by the student and teacher. One example would be the Socratic method.[5]

Student-centered learning, also known as learner-centered education, broadly encompasses methods of teaching that shift the focus of instruction from the teacher to the student. In original usage, student-centered learning aims to develop learner autonomy and independence[27] by putting responsibility for the learning path in the hands of students.[28][29][30] Student-centered instruction focuses on skills and practices that enable lifelong learning and independent problem-solving.[31]


Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1210 by creation, posted 10-30-2018 12:58 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1220 by creation, posted 10-31-2018 1:48 PM RAZD has responded

  
creation
Member
Posts: 425
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1219 of 1266 (842431)
10-31-2018 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1216 by RAZD
10-30-2018 4:13 PM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
chronologies and by correlations ALL based on the same belief.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1216 by RAZD, posted 10-30-2018 4:13 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1227 by RAZD, posted 11-01-2018 6:54 AM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 425
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1220 of 1266 (842432)
10-31-2018 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1218 by RAZD
10-30-2018 4:35 PM


Re: Pedagogy and what should be taught in school
We are tired of the godless framework that led nowhere and ended up in lunatic fables of the damned. Kids deserve better.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1218 by RAZD, posted 10-30-2018 4:35 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1228 by RAZD, posted 11-01-2018 7:00 AM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 425
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1221 of 1266 (842433)
10-31-2018 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1215 by DrJones*
10-30-2018 2:43 PM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
NOT Gabriel of the bible. No way.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1215 by DrJones*, posted 10-30-2018 2:43 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1225 by DrJones*, posted 10-31-2018 2:39 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 425
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1222 of 1266 (842434)
10-31-2018 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1214 by Tanypteryx
10-30-2018 1:28 PM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
Your evidence spirits are not real..? Oh you have none, babble on.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1214 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-30-2018 1:28 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1226 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-31-2018 2:45 PM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 425
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1223 of 1266 (842435)
10-31-2018 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1213 by ringo
10-30-2018 1:04 PM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
No one needs an argument against the parts of what is called science falsely, that are nothing more than unsupported fables. They need an argument.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1213 by ringo, posted 10-30-2018 1:04 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1224 by ringo, posted 10-31-2018 2:07 PM creation has responded

    
ringo
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Posts: 15569
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1224 of 1266 (842444)
10-31-2018 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1223 by creation
10-31-2018 1:52 PM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
creation writes:

No one needs an argument against the parts of what is called science falsely, that are nothing more than unsupported fables. They need an argument.


Nope. Creationism is dead. The world will go on quite nicely without it. If you want to resurrect it, YOU need an argument. If you don't provide one, it just makes it that much easier for us.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1223 by creation, posted 10-31-2018 1:52 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1233 by creation, posted 11-01-2018 3:00 PM ringo has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1736
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 1225 of 1266 (842450)
10-31-2018 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1221 by creation
10-31-2018 1:49 PM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
NOT Gabriel of the bible. No way.

Obviously given that the bible is a corruption of God's word, unlike the Holy Quran.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1221 by creation, posted 10-31-2018 1:49 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1232 by creation, posted 11-01-2018 2:58 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1767
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1226 of 1266 (842451)
10-31-2018 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1222 by creation
10-31-2018 1:50 PM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
Your evidence spirits are not real..? Oh you have none, babble on.

No evidence is needed to prove imaginary things are imaginary. I know it is a shock to you, but the tooth fairy is imaginary.

Fictional characters are not real. Fiction is not real.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1222 by creation, posted 10-31-2018 1:50 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1231 by creation, posted 11-01-2018 2:55 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19665
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1227 of 1266 (842458)
11-01-2018 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1219 by creation
10-31-2018 1:47 PM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
chronologies and by correlations ALL based on the same belief.

All tested, validated by peer review, replicated and documented conclusions based on evidence, not belief.

The fact that you don't know what science is or how it operates leads you to false conclusions. Your further ignorance of what scientific conclusions are leads you to think they are the same as your basis for making conclusions -- belief. Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Curiously, you are providing an excellent example of the difference between fact based learning and belief based indoctrination, and what should and should not be taught in public schools. The prime goal is learning how to learn, so that one can continue to learn after school is over. You want people to only learn your beliefs and the quit learning.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1219 by creation, posted 10-31-2018 1:47 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1230 by creation, posted 11-01-2018 2:54 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19665
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(3)
Message 1228 of 1266 (842459)
11-01-2018 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1220 by creation
10-31-2018 1:48 PM


Re: Pedagogy and what should be taught in school
We are tired of the godless framework that led nowhere and ended up in lunatic fables of the damned. Kids deserve better.

There is no "we" there is only you desperately trying to fool yourself that reality isn't real. Kids definitely deserve better that fantasy based beliefs and religious indoctrination in the name of education.

Teach kids how to learn, teach them how to fact-check information, teach them how to identify false premises and invalid logic structures, teach them to be open-minded but skeptical of unsupported claims, teach them how to make rational rather than emotional decisions.

The god/s gave you a brain, use it. Use it to learn and understand life, the universe, and everything ... strive to reach your potential and keep going. Pass it on to the next generation so they can surpass your efforts. That is the goal of education.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1220 by creation, posted 10-31-2018 1:48 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1229 by creation, posted 11-01-2018 2:52 PM RAZD has responded

  
creation
Member
Posts: 425
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1229 of 1266 (842473)
11-01-2018 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1228 by RAZD
11-01-2018 7:00 AM


Re: Pedagogy and what should be taught in school
There are believers. There are children of God, and children of Satan. Not one big happy family.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1228 by RAZD, posted 11-01-2018 7:00 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1236 by RAZD, posted 11-02-2018 7:09 AM creation has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 425
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 1230 of 1266 (842474)
11-01-2018 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1227 by RAZD
11-01-2018 6:54 AM


Re: This is a thread about what should be taught in school
Nothing is tested about nature in the far past actually. The models are constructed assuming it was the same. You test here and now. You use religion for tests, because it is only belief that says nature was the same. Proceeding as if it was the same without proving it is wasting time and indulging in beliefs. All correlations based on that are circular and belief based.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1227 by RAZD, posted 11-01-2018 6:54 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1235 by JonF, posted 11-01-2018 5:14 PM creation has not yet responded
 Message 1237 by RAZD, posted 11-02-2018 7:40 AM creation has responded

    
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