Creation as presented in Genesis chapters 1 and 2

Hi Straggler, First off if you can read and understand english and the construction of the Hebrew language it is not so obvious.If you are one of those atheistic observers, why don't you take my affirmations verse by verse and and show me where I go wrong.I am prepared to defend my position. But there is no reason to keep stating my position over and over.If you know one of those theistic observers why not convince one of them to rebut my affirmations.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, But it was evening in vs 5 as that evening and the next morning was the first complete light and dark period.So where was the light period? So the earth existed and was covered with water.Would you say the earth was uninhabitable? In Genesis 2:4-25 these things took place.Mankind was formed from the dust of the ground and God breathed the breath of life into that form and it became a living being. verse 7God planted a garden. verse 8Out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; verse 9Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; verse 19And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman. verse 22I agree that Genesis 2:4 through 2:25 has nothing to do with the creation of the earth. But it is the history of the heaven and the earth in the day the Lord God created the heaven and the earth.Now it did have something to do with the earth.Man was formed from the dust of the earth.The earth produced whatever God planted and it also produces all fruit bearing trees.All the creatures and fowl were produced from the earth. verse 19So the earth was involved. The earth was not created in Genesis 1:2=31.The earth was in existence at Genesis 1:2 which you agreed to. Does this verse say these are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created?Does this verse say, when they were created in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens?Did God call the light day in Genesis 1:5?Did God call the dark portion night in Genesis 1:5?Did God call that evening and the morning (start of next light period) the first day?Was the ending of that light period that ended the first day along with the following dark period called the second day? Genesis 1:8It seems to me there was a light period in which God created the heaven and the earth which was call day. But evening had come in Genesis 1:2. You are not quoting the KJV and what it says is what I am affirming. I believe that Gods creating began in Genesis 1:1 in the beginning., and ended in Genesis 1:27 as declared in Genesis 2:1.God has not bara created anything since that point in time as He is still resting from creating. IOW He is not creating at the present time. He will in the future. You don't find this in Genesis chapter 1. A male person was created. A female person was created from the rib of the man.The man said this is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. For that reason they shall be one flesh.I don't find that anywhere in the creation story in Genesis chapter 1:2=27.I find it concerning the man and woman created in the day the heavens and the earth was created as they are part of that history.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Straggler, Because that would be honest debate. But I am not alone in believing there are two separate creation stories in Genesis chapter 1 and chapter 2. Most modern scholars agree with me. Shucks crashfrog even agrees that there are 2 creations stories in Genesis chapters 1 and 2.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi CS, Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."So was the heaven and the earth created in Genesis 1:1?If it was not created then, in what light period was it created? What is a declarative statement?According to th University of Otawa: SourceGenesis 1:1 makes a complete statement requiring nothing from the reader.It has a subject God.It has a verb created which denotes completed action.The result of that action was that the heaven and the earth existed.Therefore Genesis 1:1 Declared God created which was a completed action, heaven and earth. Wrong I have Noah's Flood at the conventional time.Peter refers to Genesis 1:2 in: Peter said the old world perished there was no survivors. If you decide to put more time into it, it probably would not hurt to click on ICANT Posts Only and read what I have actually said.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Straggler, In the OP I said: I am not affirming what someone else has said that the KJV Bible says. It makes no difference if the entire Bible is a myth as some claim. It makes no difference if one, two, three or even four different groups wrote the stories recorded in Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis.I have simply went verse by verse and affirmed what the verses say.For someone to refute them they would have to take the ones they disagree with and point out where I have misrepresented what is written in the text of the KJV Bible.So if you could prove the KJV Bible does not say in Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."If you could prove that Genesis 2:4 does not say " These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"If you could prove all the things listed in the history (generations) of the heaven and the earth did not take place in the same light period as the creation of the heaven and the earth.If you could prove that the heavens and the earth did not exist at Genesis 1:2.If you could prove that the mankind male and female created in Genesis 1:27 was ever put in a garden and forbidden to eat the fruit of any tree.I think these would be enough to convince me I didn't have any idea what Genesis chapter 1 and 2 said.Problem is you only have what is written in the first 2 chapters of Genesis to refute what is written in those 2 chapters.I made my case throughout this thread and on several occasions asked if anyone cared to refute what I said was written in the first 2 chapters of Genesis.So far no one has made an honest attempt to do so.Would you care to give it a go? crashfrog a died in the wool atheist poster of EvC.In Message 50 the following statement: He says two stories that don't agree.I have a personal e-mail that confirms the same that they are two different stories but they are both myths so what difference does it make.There are places here where we discussed the same issues that he presented the same thoughts but I am to lazy to look them up.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, I conclude there was a day because Genesis 2:4 says the heaven and the earth was created in a day, verses a night. He did mention it. So in Genesis 1:2 was uninhabitable.But Isaiah says: Isaiah records that God said He did not create it in vain. Same words used here as in Genesis 1:2.So did God lie to Isaiah or has man been interperting Genesis 1:2 wrong? But my words you quoted specifically say the history had nothing to do with the creation of the heaven and the earth.It did have with forming man from the dust of the ground.It did have the planting of a garden.It did have the God causing the ground to produce fruit trees, herbs and all plants.It did have God forming all creatures including fowl from the ground.It did have God making a woman out of the rib of man.These people were put in the garden God had planted.They were told they could eat from all trees but one.Since all these things were bara created by God, why do you suggest this history was only about manking?The only things bara created in Genesis 1:2-27 was water creatures and mankind, male and female. Everything else was called forth after its kind. All vegetation was called forth from the seed that was upon the ground.Where did those seeds come from?The last I knew you had to have plants with fruit to produce seed. Would the detail be the same if he was talking about two different things?There is a history of Genesis 1:1 recorded in Genesis 2:4-4:25 that has nothing to do with Genesis 1:2-2:3.They are two different stories about two different events. I am saying there was a creation in Genesis 1:1 and the history of that creation was recorded in Genesis 2:4-4:25.I am saying there was an event recorded in Genesis 1:2-2:3 in which the only things bara created was water creatures and mankind in the image of God. If there was no life on earth until 6,000+ years ago would you please explain to this old farm boy where all the trillions of tons of peat came from that produced all our natural gas, oil, and coal came from Why do you say I am speculating. I examined each of the verses under question you refuse to go verse by verse and rebut them.I know the thing in the 2 chapters are not in chronological order. That is the reason I have said Genesis 2:4-4:25 should follow Genesis 1:1 as 2:4 says this is the history of the heaven and the earth in the day the heaven and the earth was created.I even listed the things between the 2 stories that can not be reconciled into one story which you nor anyone else has addressed.In the story in Genesis 2:4-25 the man was formed from the dust of the ground and the woman made from one of his ribs. They were placed in a garden and forbidden to eat the fruit of one tree.In the story in Genesis 1:2-31 the man and woman was made at the same time in the image of God. They were never placed in a garden nor were they forbidden to eat the fruit from any tree. They were told to multiply and replenish the earth.That is just two major differences.How can they be a record of the same thing? Genesis 1:2-Genesis 2:3 is a chronological account of what happened some 6000+ years ago.Genesis 2:4-4:25 is a chronological account of what happened in the beginning in the day God created the heaven and the earth.So you see they are chronological accounts they just are not in chronological order in the Bible.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Straggler, From the OP: My point is there are two stories one in chapter 1 and 1 in chapter 2.Thanks for confirming my affirmation. Now you are asserting that the two stories are the same just being told differently.Would you care to show how they could be one story with all the many differences within them?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, How small is the God you serve?My God spoke and all those things existed at once. He is no 90 pound weakling. The only dark period the day the heaven and the earth was created in is found at Genesis 1:2.I never said that light period was 24 hours long or any length as far as that is concerned. God had not set the clock in motion and there was not light periods and dark periods to keep time by. There was only a light period.Which would prove beneficial to all the vegetation required to make all of the fossile fuel available.The light period started in the beginning and lasted untill the evening we find in Genesis 1:2That is the reason that from the evening until the morning was only 12 hours but yet called the first day. When you include the light period the heavens and the earth was created in you have a complete day. Not just the light portion that is called day.If you check in Revelation you will find that the New heaven and earth will have a light period but no night. No I did not take God out of context.God is detailing in a message to Cyrus why he should believe the story Isaiah is telling him. Since God has no higher arthority to appeal to He appeals to Himself. In the process He makes the statement He did not create the earth vain but to be inhabited.That is a declarative statment made by God to Isaiah. Isaiah is the one who has to convince Cyrus. So why don't you start at verse 4 and refute what I say.You have already agreed that the heaven and earth existed in Genesis 1:1.So why not explain the history of the day the Lord God created the heaven and the earth.But you are free to disagree.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, I don't care if it was in the book of Exodus the words written in Genesis 2:4 would be refering to Genesis 1:1 along with the following verses.But 2:5 does not claim to be the beginning of the history of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,Genesis 2:4 does make the claim it is the beginning of the history of the day God created the heaven and the earth in the day God created the heaven and the earth.And yes I know that the writings of Moses did not have verses and chapters as that did not happen until just a few hundred years ago.Moses would have written on clay tablets as that is what the children of Israel was proficient in making.That means it would have been easy to mix them up and get verses in the wrong place.I say Genesis 2:4 should follow Genesis 1:1 as it claims to be the history of what happened in the light period God created the heaven and the earth.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, If you stop at verse 9 as you did you don't even have woman existing. Woman does not exist until after all the creatures are formed from the ground, and named by the man.This is the way it would read in the KJV Bible which I am affirming: The heaven and earth are created in 1:1The history of the heaven and the earth begin in what is listed as 2:4.There was no plants, or herbs before they grew it had not rained and there was no one to till the ground. 2:5There was a mist that watered the ground from beneath. 2:6We have man formed from the dust of the ground in 2:7.God planted a garden 2:8.God made every tree tht is pleasnt to the sight and good for food to grow out of the ground. 2:9A river went out of Eden and divided into four to water the land. 2:102:11-2:14 is information about the rivers.God put the man in the garden to dress it. 2:152:16-17 God tells the man he can eat fruit of all the trees but one. He is told he will die the day he eats fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good nd evil.2:18 God said He would make a help meet for man as it was not good for him to be alone.2:19, 20 God then formed every beast of the field and every fowl of the air out of the ground. He then took them to the man to see what he would call them.2:21 God took a rib from the man after He made him fall asleep.2:22 From that rib God made a woman.The man said the things in 2:24, 25.Then you bring the snake into chapter 2 when he don't belong there.Then you leave out the formation of all creatures and fowl and say they don't exist.I call that selective reading. You know reading what you want to read instead of what I am affirming.At the very best you are being intelectualy dishonest.At worst you are being deceitful just to try to prove your point and not address the real issues. Now who is complicating a perfectly fine and logical account of creation that God has provided.Which BTW does not conflict with science, like the one you insist on believing in does.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, But all of the things listed above did take place beginning with the evening found in Genesis 1:2as it was dark, the ending of that dark period with the following morning was declared as the first day. in Genesis 1:5.You do realize that there is light on half of the earth all the time don't you? There is also darkness on half of the earth at all times.I have no problem with that as I believe it is a fact as stated in Genesis 1:2-27. Did God call a light period day?Did God call a light period and a dark period a day?The evening followed by the beginning of a light period was declared as the first day.Where is the light period for day one?The end of that light period with evening and the end of that dark period with morning was declared the second day. Did whoever wrote this verse say these are the generations of the heavens and of the earth? Yes/NoGenerations from: HereHebrew towledah generations:
1) descendants, results, proceedings, generations, genealogiesa) account of men and their descendants1) genealogical list of one's descendants2) one's contemporaries3) course of historyIt seems genealogies are the history of families from generation to generation. Thus it is the history of a family.So Genesis 2:4 declares that these things are the history of the heavens and the earth in the day God created the heaven and the earth.So whoever wrote this verse said it is the history of the day God created the heaven and the earth.What is this day that happened in Genesis 1:1? No it has never stopped spinning and never will except during the process of melting with fervent heat prior to God creating a new heaven and new earth. That is not what Revelation says. God will produce all the light needed.Does this verse say there will be no night there? Yes/No Does this verse say there is no need of the sun or the moon because the Lamb is the light? Yes/NoDoes either of these verses state anything about nations or spiritual light? Yes/No This verse declares God is speaking to an anointed Cyrus. He had set Cyrus up to do a specific job for Him.Now whether Isaiah delivered the message or not I do not know. But I do know it was addressed to Cyrus. If you did I missed it could you point out which message you did that in.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, You need to correct this quote as it is Matthew 19 not 9. This says in the beginning not on day 6. In the beginning would be during the day the Heavens and the earth was created.Which is attested to by the evidence you presented to prove your point. Genesis 2:24 took place during the day the heaven and the earth was created. But Jesus was talking about the man and woman in Genesis chapter 2 not the people in chapter 1. Genesis chapter 2 is not only a better detailed account of the bara creation of mankind but the bara creation of all creatures, fowl, and vegetation of all kinds.Genesis 1:2-27 only covers the bara creation of water creatures and mankind in the image and likeness of God.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi PD, PD I could care less what the Documentary Hypothesis says about anything. Or what a Redactor may or may not have written.I don't care if it was written by P or J or even Joseph Smith, I am not affirming or denying anything concerning any of those statements or hypothesis's.I am affirming what is said in the KJV Bible. Does this verse say "In the beginning"? Yes/NoDoes the verse say, "God created the heaven and the earth"? Yes/No Does this verse say, "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth"? Yes/NoDoes this verse say those generations are, "of the Heavens and of the earth when they were created"?Does this verse say those generations are of the heavens and the earth, "when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens"? Yes/NoNothing matters except what is written in the KJV Bible as that is all that I am affirming in this thread.Do you agree that the KJV Bible says what it says? Yes/NoIf I have misrepresented what the KJV Bible says please show me where I did so.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Straggler, The man in Genesis 2:7 was formed from the dust of the ground before any other creatures or plants of any kind.
The woman in Genesis 2:22 was created from the rib of the man after all creatures were formed from the ground and plants were created without seed.These people were placed in a garden and forbidden to eat the fruit of one tree in the garden.The man and the woman in Genesis 1:27 were created in the image of God after all other creatures were called forth from the ground after their kind and plants of every kind were produced from the seed in the ground. They were not placed in a garden and they were never forbidden to eat fruit from any tree.Could you please point out the similarities in these two events.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Straggler, What relavance does this post have to this thread?If you want to discuss your topic start a thread and I will discuss it with you.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."